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Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

kyunghyuncho.me

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Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#101

Post by agalunar »

nomel wrote: post #100
agalunar wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belying the name somewhat, I believe U+3000 is specifically meant for use with Sinoform logographs, having the size of a (fullwidth character) cell, and so it makes little sense in other contexts.

The extended horizontal size is the only goal here. The dimensions for a sinoform is still related to pt size, so the relative spacing, compared to chr(32), at the same pt size, is reasonably larger. But...the vertical dimensions don't scale so well, at least in my browser. It causes a slight downward shift.

You’d perhaps be better off using U+2002 EN SPACE (or the canonically equivalent U+2000 EN QUAD).

From what I recall, the size of a typical interword space is ⅓ of an em, and traditionally a bit more than this is inserted between sentences (but less than ⅔ of an em). The period itself introduces a fair amount of negative space, and only a skosh more is needed if any.

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#102

Post by tdeck »

meowface wrote: post #39
jiggawatts wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fad associated with AI, popularised by Sam Altman especially. It's the new black turtleneck that everyone is wearing, but will swear upon their mother's life isn't because they're copying Steve Jobs.

Twitter and all forms of instant messaging (SMS, WhatsApp, Discord, and the older ones like AIM/MSN/ICQ) have normalized it for many years. Sam is just one of the few large company CEOs to tweet in the style other Twitter users usually use. He's adopting the native culture rather than setting a trend. Sam still uses capitalization in all of his essays, as do most people (including young people). In essays, like this…

It's 2025 and my phone has been automatically capitalizing the first letter of each sentence for about a decade. Doesn't it take more effort to do it the wrong way?

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#103

Post by meowface »

tdeck wrote: post #102
meowface wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter and all forms of instant messaging (SMS, WhatsApp, Discord, and the older ones like AIM/MSN/ICQ) have normalized it for many years. Sam is just one of the few large company CEOs to tweet in the style other Twitter users usually use. He's adopting the native culture rather than setting a trend. Sam still uses capitalization in all of his essays, as do most people (including young people). In essays, like this…

It's 2025 and my phone has been automatically capitalizing the first letter of each sentence for about a decade. Doesn't it take more effort to do it the wrong way?

I and most others I talk to disable autocapitalization on our phones. First thing I do when I get a new phone.

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#104

Post by bowsamic »

Izkata wrote: post #95
bowsamic wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never encountered anyone turning it off. I avoid socialising with people who think it’s rude to use capitalisation.

It's not directly rude, it's more like a serious tone of voice. But it only works like that when used unnecessarily, like in chat or IM where the message boundary styling doubles as a sentence boundary. Using the chat/IM style outside of that context just doesn't work and looks really odd, like it's obviously someone who didn't learn those norms and is now mimicking them without understanding them.

I only communicate seriously

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#105

Post by 4ggr0 »

bowsamic wrote: post #69
4ggr0 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't want to press the shift-key everytime i need a capitalized letter on my phone and i disable auto-correct because it constantly messes with native languages etc. wasn't aware that this makes me a steve jobs copier :( EDIT: people are seriously so emotionally invested in capitalization that i get downvoted into minus, jeez.

> EDIT: people are seriously so emotionally invested in capitalization that i get downvoted into minus, jeez. I find it weird that you would be surprised that people care about the quality of textual communication

maybe because i use downvotes differently than others. downvote for me means, that someone either outright lies, is very disrespectful or adds nothing to the discussion.

i don't see it as a "i don't agree with this comment"-button. opinions differ, i guess :)

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#106

Post by 4ggr0 »

marssaxman wrote: post #64
4ggr0 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't want to press the shift-key everytime i need a capitalized letter on my phone and i disable auto-correct because it constantly messes with native languages etc. wasn't aware that this makes me a steve jobs copier :( EDIT: people are seriously so emotionally invested in capitalization that i get downvoted into minus, jeez.

When you consciously choose to save yourself effort in writing, at the expense of the readers who are trying to make sense of what you are saying, the people onto whom you've transferred the cognitive load are not likely to appreciate your laziness.

your comment contains one, single, capitalized letter. if the first W in your comment would have been small, would that have made your comment so much harder to read?

does it make my comment so hard to read just because i don't start my sentences with big letters and don't capitalize myself(i)? really don't get the fuzz.

of course i capitalize letters in "official" texts, but we're in a comment section.

i find it doubly funny because english doesn't capitalize lots of things, anyways.

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#107

Post by 4ggr0 »

tomsmeding wrote: post #90
4ggr0 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't want to press the shift-key everytime i need a capitalized letter on my phone and i disable auto-correct because it constantly messes with native languages etc. wasn't aware that this makes me a steve jobs copier :( EDIT: people are seriously so emotionally invested in capitalization that i get downvoted into minus, jeez.

For completeness: I also disable all autocorrect/autocomplete on mobile because it's more trouble than it's worth, but I leave auto-capitalisation on. This is a thing, they're independent settings.

i absolutely HATE every automated keyboard-"helper", ever.

type in multiple languages constantly and all of these helpers constantly default to english usage. plus it would be weird to me if every sentence starts with a capital letter but the rest is left as it is. seems like such an arbitrary solution.

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#108

Post by albedoa »

jiggawatts wrote: post #92
albedoa wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not in science. Not in AI. Not in maths or politics or entertainment or media. That is the professional Twitter class and is not at all representative of the norm. Click through to the replies. Sentence case is probably in the vast minority. I promise you that it is neither a fad nor started with the AI bro.

Black turtlenecks existed before Steve Jobs wore them.

Oh you are the one who made the original claim lmao. What would it take for you to ever admit that you are wrong?

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#109

Post by Izkata »

bowsamic wrote: post #104
Izkata wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not directly rude, it's more like a serious tone of voice. But it only works like that when used unnecessarily, like in chat or IM where the message boundary styling doubles as a sentence boundary. Using the chat/IM style outside of that context just doesn't work and looks really odd, like it's obviously someone who didn't learn those norms and is now mimicking them without understanding them.

I only communicate seriously

That's different from a "serious tone of voice" though. Think like the way a parent might start talking to their kid when they're angry but not yelling, with something like "You better get home right now."

Or another example: "Call me" is a just a regular "let's chat about something", but "Call me." is "something bad happened I need to tell you about, so prepare yourself".

Interestingly, you're actually partially doing what I described on 2 of your 3 messages in this chain - you left out the last period because HN formatting makes it obvious where the sentence ends. So even if this norm did apply here (it doesn't really), you're not using the serious tone of voice.

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#110

Post by 1dom »

4ggr0 wrote: post #45
jiggawatts wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fad associated with AI, popularised by Sam Altman especially. It's the new black turtleneck that everyone is wearing, but will swear upon their mother's life isn't because they're copying Steve Jobs.

i don't want to press the shift-key everytime i need a capitalized letter on my phone and i disable auto-correct because it constantly messes with native languages etc. wasn't aware that this makes me a steve jobs copier :( EDIT: people are seriously so emotionally invested in capitalization that i get downvoted into minus, jeez.

Hey, sorry! I don't want you to feel bad, and I don't think you should.

I think there are legitimate reasons to struggle with things like capital letters, and you've named a few: non-native language and interface device limitations. There's other accessibility reasons too, like I have some dyslexic family members who use less capitalisation than most. Also, direct or casual communication with individuals, the impact of the extra cognitive load is minimal - 1 or 2 people - so again, no real issue.

The problem I have with this piece is that it's clearly meant to be an intellectual or academic-adjacent piece, and it's clearly meant to be public/read by many people - that's why we're reading it on Hackernews. The author is not putting in the extra few seconds required to fix the problem when writing, and as a result, many thousands of people lose a few seconds each when reading. I feel there must be a point where the cost of the extra reading time to humanity outweighs the benefits of the intellectual contribution - I can't really tell because even if I overlook the capitalisation, I'm not smart enough to understand it anyway.

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