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A Year of Telepathy

neuralink.com

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Re: A Year of Telepathy

#101

Post by Veserv »

andsoitis wrote: post #90
Veserv wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are ignoring the benefit side of a benefit-harm morality analysis. Eating an animal at least ostensibly has positive value for the people doing so. However, there are plenty of forms of "animal testing" that confer zero positive value. For instance, testing the wrong compound or inserting the wrong implant confers zero benefit. Having improper controls, "testing" nonsensical theories, repeating stale results poor…

> Eating an animal at least ostensibly has positive value for the people doing so It is what comes before the eating that we should think about. We are breeding conscious beings (cattle, pigs, chickens) in harrowing conditions, with second order effects on the environment and plant and animal diversity (by clearing space for feed). Should we stop eating animals? I don't know. Should we stop testing on animals? If it…

That is almost entirely irrelevant to the point I was making.

I was responding to the argument being made that any animal testing process on a small number of animals is fine since much larger numbers of animals are raised to be eaten. That is emphatically not true for multiple reasons of which I highlighted two distinct, practical reasons why careful animal testing is not merely ethical, but can and does increase the rate of the scientific development of safe procedures fit for usage on humans. Demanding good animal testing process is important even if people still raise and eat animals; it is not trumped either ethically or practically.

Re: A Year of Telepathy

#102

Post by nomilk »

> Noland suffered a spinal cord injury in a swimming accident and became paralyzed below his shoulders. Noland spent most of his days in bed. His primary digital device was a tablet which he controlled using a mouth-held stylus (mouth stick). The mouth stick not only caused discomfort and fatigue after prolonged use, but it also had to be put in place by a caregiver

> He is now able to control a cursor with his thoughts to browse the internet, play games, and continue his educational journey with greater independence.

Once reliable and cheap, the tangible difference this tech is going to make to people's lives is pretty wild.

Curious to know how accurate the cursor movements and clicks are. For example, here he is playing polytopia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgY70ZWCL1g

In polytopia, a misclick can be about as frustrating/costly as a mouseslip in chess (when you move a piece to the wrong square by mistake).

Re: A Year of Telepathy

#103

Post by soco »

14 wrote: post #79
SimianSci wrote: post #74

I very violently recoil from any of Musk's ventures these days. Im sure there are some very smart and talented people working at Neuralink. They should go work for someone else as their boss has shown himself to be a revolting person and the kind of leader who seeks to actively harm people who inconvenience him. This kind of behavior is not befitting of a company that will need to cultivate an incredible amount of tr…

Well I personally don't think he is trying to better the world for the sake of being some amazing person giving back to humanity, I do think he really wants to succeed being the first trilionaire. And even if he is not doing this for compassion of those who have lost so much, I do think he wants nothing more then this to be successful so he can sell it to those who need it. Even if his motivation is fully monetary, I…

Arguably he has found a quicker way to become a trillionaire, based on a government willing to fund his trip. And even now he's pushing to expand this base internationally. Do you think investing in research is still worth of his attention? It might be too soon to notice, but I somehow think not, and the "normal" projects and companies be they cars or links will start to wither...

Re: A Year of Telepathy

#104

Post by romaaeterna »

phillipcarter wrote: post #82
MathMonkeyMan wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the problem with Musk? I know his many shenanigans, but what about his helmanship causes you to violently recoil?

Overt nazi salutes is one, but another is the intentional tinkering-with and partial dismantling of the US Government's system to dispense appropriated funds, and act that is blatantly illegal.

[flagged]

Re: A Year of Telepathy

#105

Post by computerthings »

romaaeterna wrote: post #104
phillipcarter wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overt nazi salutes is one, but another is the intentional tinkering-with and partial dismantling of the US Government's system to dispense appropriated funds, and act that is blatantly illegal.

[flagged]

> question your motivations/funding sources for the accusation

That's the 1930s-1940s German ideological element. You're doing it right now.

Re: A Year of Telepathy

#106

Post by bilbo0s »

floppiplopp wrote: post #97

If the whole slave simulation with humanoid robots does not work for Elon Musk and his peers, maybe we will see W40K-like servitors, where they take the people the billionaire class deems subhuman and convert them into human drones.

I'm thinking in 50 years humans will be so much less capable than bots, that using a human as a servant or a soldier or what have you instead of using a bot would be laughable. Some of us look at AI, and Neuralink, and robot tech and see a point in time and conclude they won't get any better. That's not how any of this has ever worked. They will all get better.

The future of non-elites is unknown. But hopefully either the elites will be magnanimous, or non-elites will create new occupations that will at once, be able to create wealth, and not be able to be performed by bots. Not sure what those new occupations will be? But human ingenuity is an incredible thing, especially if the system remains market capitalism based. Because that will mean your rent and food will depend on you coming up with something to do. I think people will think of something.

If not? Well, let's just say the future might not hold societies as pleasant for non-elites as the societies of today.

Re: A Year of Telepathy

#107

Post by 14 »

tsimionescu wrote: post #99
14 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I personally don't think he is trying to better the world for the sake of being some amazing person giving back to humanity, I do think he really wants to succeed being the first trilionaire. And even if he is not doing this for compassion of those who have lost so much, I do think he wants nothing more then this to be successful so he can sell it to those who need it. Even if his motivation is fully monetary, I…

> And even if he is not doing this for compassion of those who have lost so much, I do think he wants nothing more then this to be successful so he can sell it to those who need it. I'm sure he wants to sell it to those who need it, but I don't think that this means he cares that much whether it's successful as a medical device. He generally cares whether some device appears to work well enough that he can sell it, e…

lol I never said I think this means he cares. He cares only as far as being able to sell it. So ultimately he wants it to work and work well but if it works just good enough that those who are desperate for some fraction of improvement are will be willing to pay whatever he will be happy.

Re: A Year of Telepathy

#108

Post by romaaeterna »

computerthings wrote: post #105
romaaeterna wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> question your motivations/funding sources for the accusation That's the 1930s-1940s German ideological element. You're doing it right now.

Questioning the motivations and funding of a biased source is more generally viewed to be a Journalism 101 thing than a 1930s-1940s German thing.

Nor am I Elon Musk, which seems to be the subtext of this "you're doing it now" claim (one I find quite bizarre).

Re: A Year of Telepathy

#109

Post by Philpax »

zensavona wrote: post #57
discordance wrote: post #56

Between 2018 and 2022 "the company has tested on and killed at least 1,500 animals — over 280 sheep, pigs, and monkeys, as well as mice and rats." [0] 0: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2022/12/11/23500157/neura...

Being concerned about animal testing seems pretty silly coming from people who likely eat pigs, sheep and other intelligent animals every day, who likely lived in just as bad conditions if not worse their whole lives leading up to them becoming food. I also eat meat, it just seems a bit ironic to me.

I'm pulling out my vegetarian pass to say, without hypocrisy, that Neuralink's animal testing record appears to be pretty horrific.

Re: A Year of Telepathy

#110

Post by sneak »

discordance wrote: post #56

Between 2018 and 2022 "the company has tested on and killed at least 1,500 animals — over 280 sheep, pigs, and monkeys, as well as mice and rats." [0] 0: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2022/12/11/23500157/neura...

Would you prefer they do the R&D solely on humans? Or that they cease developing BCIs?
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