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DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts

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Re: DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts

#101

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

ilaksh wrote: post #22
strangeloops85 wrote: post #3

If you're having a team going into every bit of government data, you might want to vet them. Beyond eugenicists and racists, if they're getting anywhere close to SCIFs, make sure they fill out that SF-86 accurately. And maybe even if they're not, have them go through regular clearance procedures. Yes, it takes time. But right now, DOGE seems like a huge security risk for the USG what with it setting up backdoors ever…

My take is that we actually need more efficiency in government, and from a technology standpoint, they might have some good ideas. I have a very pro-technology worldview. I'm independent leaning left but I thought that Democrats have been extreme, wasteful and untrustworthy in their own ways. It's very unfortunate that this stuff like efficiency and technology integration is now associated so closely with neo-Nazis.…

This meme that government is just hugely more inefficient than business is not correct in my experience.

I've worked for both. I have seen massive waste in business, millions spent for no gain, staff employed to build a manager's empire, not to do anything that was actually needed and other terrible outcomes. Obviously that also happens in government too, although the bigger problem there was a whole bunch of lazy staff who were hard to fire.

But... A business can largely choose its market and optimise for that. A government cannot - it has to work for pretty much everyone. Business can choose to skirt the law or even break it. Government departments must comply with all law to the best of their ability.

Not saying there are no ways to improve government efficiency. But the people who think you just need a business approach (unless you just want to break it all) are deluded.

Re: DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts

#102

Post by ivewonyoung »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #101
ilaksh wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is that we actually need more efficiency in government, and from a technology standpoint, they might have some good ideas. I have a very pro-technology worldview. I'm independent leaning left but I thought that Democrats have been extreme, wasteful and untrustworthy in their own ways. It's very unfortunate that this stuff like efficiency and technology integration is now associated so closely with neo-Nazis.…

This meme that government is just hugely more inefficient than business is not correct in my experience. I've worked for both. I have seen massive waste in business, millions spent for no gain, staff employed to build a manager's empire, not to do anything that was actually needed and other terrible outcomes. Obviously that also happens in government too, although the bigger problem there was a whole bunch of lazy st…

The big difference is that taxpayers are on the hook for government inefficiency and for most services there is no competition, the classic example being the DMV. Having one hour queues frequently is rare in private businesses.

Whereas with businesses they could go out of business if they overspend on inefficient processes and there can be competition on both quality and price.

One of the root causes is that it's very difficult to fire government employees for bad performance so that's why government services suck and cost a lot in almost every level of the government and in pretty much every country with some exceptions, like say the NTSB in the US.

It's not even that low performers should all be fired, but the fact that knowing you it's hard to get fired leads to many people underperforming given natural psychology. The other problem being lack of incentives tied to performance.

Re: DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts

#103

Post by computerthings »

loanedempathy wrote: post #88
computerthings wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the relative population of Latinos in the US as a percent, compared with Jews in Germany at the time? What is the geographic distribution of those folks compared to Jews at the time? What is the representation of Latinos in Congress? How is that relevant? > it's also worth evaluating on its own merits. But why do it in the form of a riddle?

> How is that relevant? The thing that user is concerned about seems to be trying to decide if we're looking at another Holocaust. It seems reasonable to check to see if the preconditions are similar. > But why do it in the form of a riddle? It's not a riddle, it's an invitation to set a baseline to discuss from that's not just "the world is scary and we're looking at another Holocaust". If somebody says the world is…

> It seems reasonable to check to see if the preconditions are similar.

I know. And I ask how that is relevant, how any answer to those particular question would makes them similar or dissimilar. It's not. I know this for a fact, but you didn't even make the attempt to claim otherwise.

It's not about absolute or relative numbers. And it's not about knowing the future.

If I say "don't fall asleep with a cigarette", do I mean "don't burn yourself", "don't kill yourself", "don't burn down your house", "don't burn down the block", "don't burn down the city", or "don't burn down the continent"?

Re: DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts

#104

Post by whateveracct »

rbanffy wrote: post #99
ilaksh wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is that we actually need more efficiency in government, and from a technology standpoint, they might have some good ideas. I have a very pro-technology worldview. I'm independent leaning left but I thought that Democrats have been extreme, wasteful and untrustworthy in their own ways. It's very unfortunate that this stuff like efficiency and technology integration is now associated so closely with neo-Nazis.…

> we actually need more efficiency in government Government services should be efficient, but that should never happen at the cost of being independent from the people in office, transparent, auditable, secure, and accountable.

Exactly. There are a lot of things above efficiency on the priority list.

Re: DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts

#105

Post by blurbleblurble »

QnfbagsHt wrote: post #26

The bigger picture problem is that Musk's grandfather Haldeman was part of the technocracy movement, which wanted to implement the "North American Technate", which includes Canada, Greenland and much of middle America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement#The_Techn... The agenda 2025 is eerily similar, including the proposed land grabs and a tech style governance by "elites".

Insane, thanks for sharing

Re: DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts

#106

Post by loanedempathy »

DonHopkins wrote: post #95
loanedempathy wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're referring to me, you'll have to do better than namecalling. If you're referring to Musk or the current administration, calling them names doesn't really seem to have worked for what, at least nine years now?

Confessing to fucking goats isn't quite the power move you make it out to be, but if you want to take one for the team, and claim that what you're doing is merely performance art intended to troll, while "things aren't as bad as they're being made out to be" and "concerns about replacement" are actually well founded, then be my guest. The fact that a racist doesn't mind being called a racist doesn't make them not a r…

I don't think you're reading me in the way that I intended, and I think you're being very uncharitable.

I did not claim that their concerns about replacement were well-founded, merely that they were understandable. Again, go back and read what I actually wrote: we cannot both acknowledge that there is a decline in the proportion of whites in America, that there are policies being pursued that help with this (again, no moral judgement, simply a statement of fact), and also that the people who are scared about losing majority status are completely without basis in their concerns.

If you cannot understand the tiny pier of truth that these people use as a foundation for the massive pile of other nonsense they've stacked (or had stacked) upon it, you will never be able to get them to change.

I'm not asking you to agree with them. I'm not asking you to say that the whole of their beliefs makes any sense at all.

I'm asking you to understand that they aren't pulling this completely out of thin air, and that if you want to have more success than you've had it may be worth it to acknowledge their concerns and try to show how your preferred policies would serve them better and how their current preferred bozos are manipulating them.

You and people like you might assert that they're idiots, misinformed, evil, or whatever else--but their vote counts as much as yours, sometimes moreso, and so you ignore or misunderstand them at your peril.

Re: DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts

#107

Post by loanedempathy »

computerthings wrote: post #103
loanedempathy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is that relevant? The thing that user is concerned about seems to be trying to decide if we're looking at another Holocaust. It seems reasonable to check to see if the preconditions are similar. > But why do it in the form of a riddle? It's not a riddle, it's an invitation to set a baseline to discuss from that's not just "the world is scary and we're looking at another Holocaust". If somebody says the world is…

> It seems reasonable to check to see if the preconditions are similar. I know. And I ask how that is relevant, how any answer to those particular question would makes them similar or dissimilar. It's not. I know this for a fact, but you didn't even make the attempt to claim otherwise. It's not about absolute or relative numbers. And it's not about knowing the future. If I say "don't fall asleep with a cigarette", do…

> I know this for a fact

If you can't see how the implementation of a Holocaust in the US might be impacted by the distribution and population density of Latinos I can't help you.

Some of the estimates I've seen for 1930s Germany were that Jews were less than 1% of the population; by contrast, Latinos are far beyond that--something like 40% in Texas and California.

A big part of the Holocaust was the targeted persecution and removal and ultimate execution of Jews, right? This was greatly aided by the fact that there were so few of them, and the Nazis were able to pin a bunch of ills of the time upon them. It's a lot easier to other a group when there are only a few representatives around.

My assertion--if you agree with the numbers earlier, which to me seem to be about the right near order of magnitude--is that we're not going to see that here in the US with Latinos (or Blacks, or most other groups) in the same way, and so fears of a Holocaust against those groups are likely unfounded.

Now, this isn't to say that there aren't a dozen other problems that could pop up, or that perhaps it might take a form wholly different than history--but the assertion was "we have lots of parallels to the Holocaust's preconditions" and I think that is (mercifully) one of the few things we don't have to worry about.

Re: DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts

#108

Post by tosbalok3 »

Tostino wrote: post #11
entropicdrifter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presidential mandate

To become a dictator? This isn't in the presidential powers. Congress needs to pass a bill if they want to do this.

> This isn't in the presidential powers. Yes it is! It is literally the first sentence of section 1 of Article II of the constitution!

Saying, "I don't like this therefore it's not in his power" is logically identical to seeing Congress pass a law that you don't like and saying, "this isn't in Congress' power"

Re: DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts

#109

Post by computerthings »

loanedempathy wrote: post #107
computerthings wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems reasonable to check to see if the preconditions are similar. I know. And I ask how that is relevant, how any answer to those particular question would makes them similar or dissimilar. It's not. I know this for a fact, but you didn't even make the attempt to claim otherwise. It's not about absolute or relative numbers. And it's not about knowing the future. If I say "don't fall asleep with a cigarette", do…

> I know this for a fact If you can't see how the implementation of a Holocaust in the US might be impacted by the distribution and population density of Latinos I can't help you. Some of the estimates I've seen for 1930s Germany were that Jews were less than 1% of the population; by contrast, Latinos are far beyond that--something like 40% in Texas and California. A big part of the Holocaust was the targeted persecu…

"the exact same thing in the same way" is a goal post of your own making, and I reject it. People stripped of their rights and disappeared, not based on individual actions, but their being only considered as object-like members of their groups. That's more than enough to have on one's plate not to wonder about the "likely" desert.

Re: DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts

#110

Post by Tostino »

tosbalok3 wrote: post #108
Tostino wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To become a dictator? This isn't in the presidential powers. Congress needs to pass a bill if they want to do this.

> This isn't in the presidential powers. Yes it is! It is literally the first sentence of section 1 of Article II of the constitution! Saying, "I don't like this therefore it's not in his power" is logically identical to seeing Congress pass a law that you don't like and saying, "this isn't in Congress' power"

The power of the purse was deliberately placed with Congress in Article I, Section 9, Clause 7: "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law." This isn't about liking or disliking powers, it's about maintaining the constitutional balance that protects everyone's rights. Article II Section 1 establishes the presidency and electoral process, but the Take Care Clause in Section 3 actually requires the President to faithfully execute Congress's laws. This separation of powers exists specifically to prevent any branch from exercising unchecked authority over public funds. Changing funding requires congressional action because that's a core protection built into our system. It's not an obstacle to be worked around, it's a fundamental safeguard of our constitutional republic.
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