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Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

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Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#101

Post by IncreasePosts »

mandmandam wrote: post #83
IncreasePosts wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment isn't wrong, but the implication is at deep seek is somehow special and is getting undue attention from hackers. Any app that skyrockets from nowhere to number one in the app store overnight will have the attention of probably hundreds of thousands of hackers.

> the implication is at deep seek is somehow special and is getting undue attention from hackers ... It is special. There was over a trillion dollars wiped from tech stocks lol, in a massive win for consumers and the planet. You can't say this is like Flappy Bird or something.

The stock market does all sorts of silly things. If the stocks recover in 2 weeks to where they were, will that be deep seek erasing $1T and tech re-earning $1T? Or deep seek doing nothing?

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#102

Post by gchamonlive »

fzzzy wrote: post #80
hdlothia wrote: post #5

This kinda does support the 'DeepSeek is the side project of a bunch of quants' angle. Seems like the kind of mistake you would make if you are not used to deploying external client facing applications.

how many people in the world are used to deploying external client facing applications?

I am and I'm quite sure I'm not that big of a deal

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#103

Post by btown »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #49
nyclounge wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is ClickHouse exposing unauthenticated database access at port 9000 to the public? Is this the default behavior or did DeepSeek open it up for dev purposes?

I don't have personal experience but from a quick google it looks like default setup is to accept connections on localhost only [0], and there's a default user without capability to run SQL statements. They would have had to open remote connections and enable SQL capability for the default user (it looks like this is the first step to creating other users, the 3rd step is, removing SQL capability for default user.) […

From https://clickhouse.com/docs/en/operations/access-rights#acce...

> By default, the ClickHouse server provides the default user account which is not allowed using SQL-driven access control and account management but has all the rights and permissions. The default user account is used in any cases when the username is not defined, for example, at login from client or in distributed queries

This seems... very antiquated as a default? Clickhouse is relatively modern, first released in 2016, long after people were finding unauthenticated MongoDB servers left and right. Why not design it that starting a server requires at least a user-provided password in a config file? And then, even if that password was shared amongst all DeepSeek devs, at least it wouldn't be publicly accessible.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#104

Post by razster »

dotancohen wrote: post #43
NathanKP wrote: post #2

And that's why you run models locally. Or if you want a remote chat model, use something stateless like AWS Bedrock custom model import to avoid having stored chats on the server.

Not many non-gamers have hardware capable of running such a model locally - never mind the skills. For most people, bash is not a tool for interacting with the computer, it is how they express their frustration with the computer (sometimes leaving damaged keyboards).

I have DeepSeek-R1 1.5b running on a Raspberry Pi 5. I have DS-R1 14b Q6 running on my old AM4 Ryzen with a AMD GPU, without issues. My primary workstation is running 32B Q8 and without issues. And it's simple!

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#105

Post by heelix »

rcruzeiro wrote: post #65
jvansc wrote: post #62

This is probably an incredibly stupid, off-topic question, but why are their database schemas and logs in English? Like, when a DeepSeek dev uses these systems as intended, would they also be seeing the columns, keys, etc. in English? Is there usually a translation step involved? Or do devs around the world just have to bite the bullet and learn enough English to be able to use the majority of tools? I'm realizing no…

Someone who worked on a non-English environment years ago here: sometimes you do use the local language in some contexts, but, more often than not, you end up using English for the majority of stuff since it's a bit off-putting to mix another language with the English of programming languages and APIs.

Our US company sent me to France to help out with an implementation. The guy I worked with spoke very little English and my French is terrible. Both of us had done Latin, however - so the comments were hilarious as we used that as our common link. One of those projects I'd expect to show on the daily WTF at some point.

I did try my hand at a translation tool, as it was all i18n up proper. Watched one guy blow coffee through his nose when I demo'ed - and the 'BACK' navigation was the French word for a persons back or something like that.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#106

Post by [deleted] »

sghiassy wrote: post #82
rcruzeiro wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone who worked on a non-English environment years ago here: sometimes you do use the local language in some contexts, but, more often than not, you end up using English for the majority of stuff since it's a bit off-putting to mix another language with the English of programming languages and APIs.

Dumb question, but it would then seem that you have to know English to program??

[deleted]

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#107

Post by sho_hn »

spoaceman7777 wrote: post #37
islewis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of ML researchers who were initially hired to do quant work published their first ever user facing project. So maybe not a side project, but if you have ever worked with ML researchers before, lack of engineering/security chops shouldn't be that surprising to you.

First ever? Their math, coding, and other models have been making a splash since 2023. The mythologizing around deepseek is just absurd. "Deepseek is the tale of one lowly hedgefund manager overcoming the wicked American AI devils". Every day I hear variations of this, and the vast majority of it is based entirely in "vibes" emanating from some unknown place.

What I find amusing is that this closely mirrors the breakout moment OpenAI had with ChatGPT. They had been releasing models for quite some time before slapping the chatbot interface on it, and then it blew up within a few days.

It's fascinating that a couple of years and a few competitors in, the DeepSeek moment parallels it so closely.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#108

Post by matt-p »

fzzzy wrote: post #80
hdlothia wrote: post #5

This kinda does support the 'DeepSeek is the side project of a bunch of quants' angle. Seems like the kind of mistake you would make if you are not used to deploying external client facing applications.

how many people in the world are used to deploying external client facing applications?

A million or more, be serious.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#109

Post by 0x457 »

jvansc wrote: post #62

This is probably an incredibly stupid, off-topic question, but why are their database schemas and logs in English? Like, when a DeepSeek dev uses these systems as intended, would they also be seeing the columns, keys, etc. in English? Is there usually a translation step involved? Or do devs around the world just have to bite the bullet and learn enough English to be able to use the majority of tools? I'm realizing no…

Unless they're using a programming language that isn't English-based (for example, Russian 1С system uses Russian keywords and the whole codebase is usually in Russian), then most of the code stays English.

This way, you don't have to change keyboard layout while writing code.

Anyway, you're forced to learn some English when doing any real software development.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#110

Post by pinoy420 »

lowdest wrote: post #92
fzzzy wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how many people in the world are used to deploying external client facing applications?

Hundreds of thousands. My employer alone probably has 1000.

No. I don’t think so. I think if you took many engineers and sat them at a computer and asked them to stand up a whole dev staging prod system they wouldn’t be able to do it.

I certainly would not, or it would take me a significant amount of time to do properly. I have been a full stack dev for 10 years. Now take that one step further to someone whose only interaction with a development is numpy, pandas, julia, etc…

You are, in typical HN style, minimising the problem into insignificance.

This is /not/ a “stick it behind an aws load balancer and on one of their abstracted services that does 99% of the work for you” - that would be less difficult.

E: love how this is getting ratioed by egotistical self confessed x10 engineers no doubt. Some self reflection is needed on your behalf. Just because /you/ think you would be capable, does not mean that the plethora of others would be able to.

What likely happened here is an ingress rule was set up wrongly on iptables or equivalent.. something many of your fellow engineers would have no clue about. An open dev database is rather normal if you want something out of the door quickly, why would you worry about an internal accessible only tool’s security if you trust your 10 or so staff. Have a think about the startups you have worked in (everyone here is a startup pro, just like you are - remember!) and what dire situation your mvp was in behind its smoke and mirrors PowerPoint slide deck.

Yes this was disastrous for PR. No it is not a problem solved in its entirety entirely by learned engineering experts like yourself.

Oh here. A comment from ClickHouse saying there is a legitimate reason why this will have been configured this way and happened https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42873446

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