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Operator research preview

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Re: Operator research preview

#101

Post by mrdependable »

brap wrote: post #31

I don't know why, but the approach where "agents" accomplish things by using a mouse and keyboard and looking at pixels always seemed off to me. I understand that in theory it's more flexible, but I always imagined some sort of standard, where apps and services can expose a set of pre-approved actions on the user's behalf. And the user can add/revoke privileges from agents at any point. Kind of like OAuth scopes. Ima…

I think the answer here speaks to the intentions of these companies. The focus is on having the AI act like a human would in order to cut humans out of the equation.

Re: Operator research preview

#102

Post by mattstir »

darioush wrote: post #35
easterncalculus wrote: post #22

From the slide deck on the livestream: "[Operator safety risks and mitigations] Harmful tasks: User is misaligned" Looking forward to seeing some more of the examples for when openai considers their users as "misaligned", whatever that actually even means anymore.

As the storyline unfolds "AI" seems to be code for "machine learning based censorship". Soon we will have home appliances and vehicles telling you about how aligned you are, and whether you need to improve your alignment score before you can open your fridge. It is only a matter of time before this will apply to your financial transactions as well.

I can sympathize with vague notions of AI dystopia, but this might be stretching the concept a bit too far. This kind of service is extremely abusable ("Operator, go to Wikipedia and start mass-vandalizing articles" or "Go to this website and try these people's email addresses with random passwords until it locks their accounts") and building some alignment goals into it doesn't seem like a terribly draconian idea.

Also, if you were under the impression that machine-learned (or otherwise) restrictions aren't already applied to purchases made with your cards, you're in for an unfortunate bit of news there as well.

Re: Operator research preview

#103

Post by [deleted] »

moralestapia wrote: post #11

Waiting for the "OpenAI has no moat" crowd to chime in while they keep releasing new features and dominating market share. (And yeah, they just got half a trillion ). Edit: Downvote all you want, reality won't change. Oh, what happened with "Scarlett Johansson will take down OpenAI because she invented speaking like a woman", literally nothing. What about "AI will never replace Hollywood actors". What about that time…

[deleted]

Re: Operator research preview

#104

Post by _rupertius »

brap wrote: post #31

I don't know why, but the approach where "agents" accomplish things by using a mouse and keyboard and looking at pixels always seemed off to me. I understand that in theory it's more flexible, but I always imagined some sort of standard, where apps and services can expose a set of pre-approved actions on the user's behalf. And the user can add/revoke privileges from agents at any point. Kind of like OAuth scopes. Ima…

That's specifically what I'm working on at Unternet [1], based on observing the same issue while working at Adept. It seems absurd that in the future we'll have developers building full GUI apps that users never see, because they're being used by GPU-crunching vision models, which then in turn create their own interfaces for end-users.

Instead we need apps that have a human interface for users, and a machine interface for models. I've been building web applets [2] as an lightweight protocol on top of the web to achieve this. It's in early stages, but I'm inviting the first projects to start building with it & accepting contributions.

[1]: https://unternet.co/

[2]: https://github.com/unternet-co/web-applets/

Re: Operator research preview

#105

Post by [deleted] »

brap wrote: post #31

I don't know why, but the approach where "agents" accomplish things by using a mouse and keyboard and looking at pixels always seemed off to me. I understand that in theory it's more flexible, but I always imagined some sort of standard, where apps and services can expose a set of pre-approved actions on the user's behalf. And the user can add/revoke privileges from agents at any point. Kind of like OAuth scopes. Ima…

[deleted]

Re: Operator research preview

#106

Post by Tenoke »

I guess with this they can also record user-browser interactions to use as training data, which is one way I was envisioning for creating a human-like AGI back in the day (2019)[0]. Of course, the current paradigm has went in a different direction and training directly from all the inputs/outputs of computer usage isn't quite how this data would be used, but still.

0. https://svilentodorov.xyz/blog/human-imitating-task/

Re: Operator research preview

#107

Post by jsheard »

hammock wrote: post #59
tedsanders wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume here it means complying with requests that could harm other people. It's pretty common for businesses to tell their employees not to assist customers doing bad things, so not surprised to see AIs trained to not to assist customers doing bad things. Examples: - "operator, please sign up for 100 fake Reddit accounts and have them regularly make posts praising product X." - "operator, please order the component…

Isn't that reddit/home depot/instagram's problem? Not a job for the guy you hired to do a thing

It's OpenAIs problem if sites start throttling/challenging/blocking their agent traffic in response to abuse.

Re: Operator research preview

#108

Post by estsauver »

brap wrote: post #31

I don't know why, but the approach where "agents" accomplish things by using a mouse and keyboard and looking at pixels always seemed off to me. I understand that in theory it's more flexible, but I always imagined some sort of standard, where apps and services can expose a set of pre-approved actions on the user's behalf. And the user can add/revoke privileges from agents at any point. Kind of like OAuth scopes. Ima…

I think it's just another way of accessing anything that doesn't have a traditional API. Most humans interact with things through the world with a web browser, with a keyboard and a mouse, and so even places that don't have any sort of API can be supported. You can still probably use things that define tool use explicitly, but I think this is kind of becoming a general purpose tool-use of last resort?

Re: Operator research preview

#109

Post by [deleted] »

jprete wrote: post #96
raincole wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I always imagined some sort of standard, where apps and services can expose a set of pre-approved actions on the user's behalf I sincerely hope it's not the future we're heading to (but it might be inevitable, sadly). If it becomes a popular trend, developers will start making "AI-first" apps that you have to use AI to interact with to get the full functionality. See also: mobile first.

Why would developers do that? The developer's incentive is to control the experience for a mix of the users' ends and the developer's ends. Functionality being what users want and monetization being what developers want. Devs don't expose APIs for the same reason why hackers want them - it commodifies the service. An AI-first app only makes sense if the developer controls the AI and is developing the app to sell AI s…

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