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More than 40% of postdocs leave academia, study reveals

nature.com

101–110 of 250 posts

Re: More than 40% of postdocs leave academia, study reveals

#102

Not surprising. I quit after about a year. I could have stayed on but I realized that it just wasn't right for me. By then I had figured out that most research is done by post docs and phd students and it doesn't pay very well. Not that I cared about the money but I started thinking about what is next and did not like the perspective. Professors are basically there to manage the process and haggle for funding. They t…

Hmm this doesn't sound like what I experienced a professor doing... But this probably depends on the location and the discipline... Or well at least here in Germany you can more or less pick what you want to do: more being a people / project manager or more own research, or a mix of that... The uncertainty/low chances of getting a tenured position are not different though... And though it might suck, this is something you know, at the latest, after your PhD.

Re: More than 40% of postdocs leave academia, study reveals

#103

How many come back? I stayed in my tenure-track position for 3.5 years, left for industry for 2.5 years, and am now back in academia :)

Did you ever get asked why you came back to the academic world in the interviews? I'm curious how PhDs who've been in the industry are viewed from academia.

Re: More than 40% of postdocs leave academia, study reveals

#104
post #53

My spouse is a molecular biologist pursuing her PhD in RNA therapy. She works ~2x longer and 10x harder than I do, with only a third of the yield. You can only sustain that for so long. She's in academia solely because she's good at it. However, there are a few things I've observed from the sidelines: - PIs can make your life absolutely miserable for no reason, and it's difficult to switch labs if you're otherwise ma…

Poor pay is an understatement. Back in 2010’s when I graduated, I was making USD$21K per year! If you calculate the hourly rate it is probably close to $3/hour given that PhDs work every day, and specially in the holidays that the advisor has more free time.

We were jokingly say that they don’t dare to call it a salary, that is why they call it a stipend.

Re: More than 40% of postdocs leave academia, study reveals

#105

Not surprising. I quit after about a year. I could have stayed on but I realized that it just wasn't right for me. By then I had figured out that most research is done by post docs and phd students and it doesn't pay very well. Not that I cared about the money but I started thinking about what is next and did not like the perspective. Professors are basically there to manage the process and haggle for funding. They t…

Postdocs always seemed like a scam to me.

Almost by definition, if you're doing a Postdoc in a STEM field, you're probably qualified for a relatively well-paying job in industry [1].

And it's not like universities don't know this, people have been complaining about it for forever. They know if they were to just hire a person with a relevant PhD to do work, they'd ask for a good wage, so instead they dangle this "maybe you'll qualify for a tenured professor job eventually if you do underpaid labor for us for N years..."

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My relationship with academia is...complicated. I dropped out of college in 2012, worked as an engineer for awhile, did a brief stint as a researchey-person at NYU, got laid-off from there, worked in industry for another several years, tried school again in 2018 and dropped out again in 2019, finally finished my degree in 2021, and started a PhD in 2022, and did an adjunct lecturer thing from second-half of 2022 to first-half 2023.

Since I was working full time (and couldn't pay my mortgage on academic wages), I was doing a PhD at University of York part-time remotely. It was fun, but I wasn't just paid poorly, I had to pay them! About $15,000-$16,000/year American [2]! Even though I was doing work for the school, writing code for them that's not categorically different than the code I got paid yuppie engineer salary for, I was losing money in this prospect (and not just the normal opportunity cost kind).

I did it for two years, but I dropped it in November of last year because it was an expensive thing that I wasn't convinced was actually going to pay off for me. The PhD was already pretty self-guided, I could still research the topics I was interested in for free, academia's pace is glacial-at-best, and I didn't burn any bridges so I could go back later if I really wanted.

I might still publish a paper with my advisor in this next year (that's still pending), but of course since I'm not enrolled-in and paying-money-to the school, it won't count towards any credential. I think I'm ok with that.

[1] There might be exception to this but I can't think of many.

[2] depending on the dollar->pound exchange rate.

Re: More than 40% of postdocs leave academia, study reveals

#106

How many come back? I stayed in my tenure-track position for 3.5 years, left for industry for 2.5 years, and am now back in academia :)

Did you ever get asked why you came back to the academic world in the interviews? I'm curious how PhDs who've been in the industry are viewed from academia.

Oh yes. But given that I am in a software engineering department, they really value industry experience. I actually published way more in industry than I did in academia!

Re: More than 40% of postdocs leave academia, study reveals

#107
Isn't this a good thing?

We want to train highly skilled people and then unleash them in the private sector to create new companies or help push existing companies forward.

I'm not sure what the right percentage would be for postdocs leaving academia, but i would have assumed it was around 90% if you made me guess.

That just seems healthy.

Re: More than 40% of postdocs leave academia, study reveals

#108
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Western academia has always been more about advancing knowledge, which IMO is academia's mission. You can advance knowledge in ways that are aligned with the nation's strategic needs. That would imply the career path of researchers would be oriented towards industry instead of pie in the sky projects.

I fail to see why universities should align on their country's strategic interests. Universities are not political nor military entities. Additionally, pie in the sky projects is what's needed to advance science, which is very distinct from advancing technology (industry).

Yeah. Practical working implementations of the latest in ML image classification technologies are a rapidly changing incremental improvement problem that industry is already all over, so not really surprising that this isn't a major focus for US university research: if PhDs or even potential PhDs want to do that they can get a much higher rate of pay at a private company.

Re: More than 40% of postdocs leave academia, study reveals

#109
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would have expected a higher percentage. This. A 60% stay rate evokes scenarios of academic inbreeding and a total disconnect between the real world and the small bubble where research groups operate.

> A 60% stay rate evokes scenarios of academic inbreeding and a total disconnect between the real world and the small bubble where research groups operate Why?

Academia's current structure rewards behaviors that don't necessarily create value. The "publish or perish" mentality encourages quantity over quality, leading to the replication crisis where many published findings can't be reproduced. The system tends to reward those who conform to existing academic paradigms while marginalizing innovative outsider perspectives that might bring valuable real-world insights.

When academics move directly from being students to faculty without external experience, it creates an echo chamber. This isolation from practical applications and market forces risks turning academic pursuit into a self-referential game - where success is measured by metrics like publication count and citation numbers rather than actual contribution to human knowledge or societal progress.

This separation from real-world feedback mechanisms means we may be investing significant human capital into activities that optimize for academic metrics rather than meaningful outcomes. The challenge isn't just about individual careers, but about ensuring our research institutions remain connected to the practical problems they're meant to help solve.

Re: More than 40% of postdocs leave academia, study reveals

#110

Isn't this a good thing? We want to train highly skilled people and then unleash them in the private sector to create new companies or help push existing companies forward. I'm not sure what the right percentage would be for postdocs leaving academia, but i would have assumed it was around 90% if you made me guess. That just seems healthy.

> We want to train highly skilled people

After how many postdocs is one "highly skilled"?

Postdocs are foremost a failure of the academic job market (supply of eager researchers much larger than available academic positions) that over time has become some sort of ingrained filtering mechanism.

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