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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#101

Post by oa335 »

breppp wrote: post #40
verdverm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has likely also created multiple generations of anger and hate against themselves. They may have reduced the likelihood of another Oct 7 in the near term, but 50 years is not something I would count on

Probably the most efficient way of creating multiple generations of anger and hate is letting a radical terrorist movement control 2 million people, which can completely mold the education curriculum and free to draft anyone to their quasi-army So whatever it has done, it cannot possibly be worse than pre-war

> letting a radical terrorist movement control 2 million people, which can completely mold the education curriculum and free to draft anyone to their quasi-army

“Terrorist” groups Irgun, Haganah, Lehi all became part of Israeli government and army post 1948. Israel has mandatory military service for its citizens.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#102

Post by flumpcakes »

jfactorial wrote: post #60
flumpcakes wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Western media is also very anti-Israeli Taking nothing away from your personal local experiences wherever you are, I don't think this is a generally true statement. https://institute.aljazeera.net/en/ajr/article/2871 https://www.protect-journalists.com/

Al Jazeera is far from unbiased. _Some_ of these so-called "Journalists" were terrorists and/or Hamas propagandists. That fact seems to escape the western press. All reporting I have seen puts the same level of credibility between Israeli and Hamas statements - one being from an elected democracy with rules based order and the other a literal genocidal terrorist organisation. I don't see the retractions given the same exposure as the claims when it turns out Hamas have lied. I don't see the atrocities Hamas commits get air time.

This is just my experience over the last 16 months. I thought it was absolutely crazy that within hours of Oct 7th I was seeing in the news how Israel should be blamed or are responsible. This weird rewriting of history in real time doesn't seem to have been let up since. It feels like I am taking crazy pills with the amount of vehement anti-Israeli diatribe that comes out of what I thought were sensible people or unbiased institutions.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#103

Post by Cyph0n »

pydry wrote: post #97
throwaway7783 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% support ceasefire. 100% agree Israel overdid it. 100% support Hamas must cease to exist. Don't leave that last part out

[flagged]

China gained even more from this genocidal spree & exercise in ignoring international law. BRICS got a new lease on life. And NDB is shaping up to be a legitimate competitor to the IMF.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#104

Post by DrJohanson »

pydry wrote: post #93
halflife wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entirety of Hamas leadership is gone, Hamas will most likely not going to have control in Gaza (still being debated which mechanism will govern, this is part of the deal), the crossing to Egypt will be handled by foreign countries which will prevent weapon smuggling. And in the broader spectrum, hizballah is not more, Assad is no more, all of Iran’s proxies can no longer support Hamas’ ambitions which basically m…

[flagged]

> As the Hamas leadership pointed out, this objective failed.

Israel's objective from day one has not been to expel Hamas from Gaza (that's virtually impossible), but to remove it from power. And if the rumors about the ceasefire are true (and if the ceasefire is going to be respected), that's what's going to happen.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#105

Post by jncfhnb »

verdverm wrote: post #22
steviedotboston wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas has been considerably weakened. Their arsenal of rockets and weapons is depleted. At the beginning of the war thousands of rockets were being shot into Israel and now there are very few and the ones that are are quite crude. Hezbollah entered the war immediately and said the only way they would exit is if Hamas exists. Israel retaliated, killed their leader, decimated their forces, and negotiated a ceasefire th…

Israel has likely also created multiple generations of anger and hate against themselves. They may have reduced the likelihood of another Oct 7 in the near term, but 50 years is not something I would count on

This is the narrative that the extremists want to push, but it’s hardly the truth. Hamas was not some grassroots movement of frustrated Palestinians. It was an Iranian proxy force masterminded, funded, supplied, trained, and instructed by Iran.

There are certainly many angry Palestinians before and after but this is foreign meddling through and through. Hamas would not exist in this form and have done the things that it did otherwise.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#106

Post by regularization »

zazazache wrote: post #49
throwaway7783 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% support ceasefire. 100% agree Israel overdid it. 100% support Hamas must cease to exist. Don't leave that last part out

What is different from Hamas right to exist compared to the IDF or Likud? Hamas certainly has less blood on their hands!

Especially since Netanyahu was trying to revive Hamas prior to Hamas's attack, in order to starve off Fatah's Palestinian recognition efforts at the UN, according to the New York Times ( https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q... )

Turn on Israeli TV and they're showing the IDF raping prisoners in Sde Teiman. Degenerate behavior from the self-described Jewish state. The US taxpayer is paying the bills for all this bloodshed.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#107

Post by jncfhnb »

xg15 wrote: post #27
steviedotboston wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas has been considerably weakened. Their arsenal of rockets and weapons is depleted. At the beginning of the war thousands of rockets were being shot into Israel and now there are very few and the ones that are are quite crude. Hezbollah entered the war immediately and said the only way they would exit is if Hamas exists. Israel retaliated, killed their leader, decimated their forces, and negotiated a ceasefire th…

Good points there. Still not sure how much the ouster of Assad was connected with the war (though no doubt that the weakening of Hezbollah must have contributed a lot to it) but it definitely changed the playing field.

It was 100% driven by the weakness in Hezbollah and Russia and Iran. There’s no doubt.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#108

Post by Cyph0n »

rgmarkh wrote: post #16
optymizer wrote: post #3

How is this hacker news? From the HN guidelines: Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. *If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.*

It is news because several newspapers credit the achievement to Trump and his envoy Witkoff. Ha'aretz has more on this, but it's paywalled so here is another one: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/with-epic-deal-... This is not just Trump bragging and taking credit, search other sources.

I hate Trump as much as the next guy, but multiple sources are agreeing on the fact that Trump’s team had a role to play in this. But I guess this upsets the “vote blue no matter who” crowd.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#109

Post by jncfhnb »

lesuorac wrote: post #11
bpodgursky wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you concretely suggest what each side should have done at some point in time, to avoid being where we are now? I feel like you're making a rhetorical statement that's hard to map to specific actions.

If neither side has really changed what's to prevent them from going to war again? It happened for a reason and unless that reason has changed then one should expect the same outcome.

Hamas was built over a long period by Iran, through Syria. Iran is much weaker than before, Syria is no longer a route to send supplies, and Hezbollah has been gutted.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#110

Post by trhway »

Cyph0n wrote: post #98
trhway wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Isis was never a legitimate independence movement. It was an expansionist terrorist group built on - quite literally - terror and anarchy. It worked for a while because the conditions were suitable in Syria and Iraq. A true anti-colonial, independence movement does not die that easily. Across history, freedom & returning to one’s land are the greatest motivators of all.

>Isis was never a legitimate independence movement. It was an expansionist terrorist group built on - quite literally - terror and anarchy. It worked for a while because the conditions were suitable in Syria and Iraq.

Yep. HAMAS is the same.

>A true anti-colonial, independence movement does not die that easily. Across history, freedom & returning to one’s land are the greatest motivators of all.

Yes. That though has no relation to the subject at hands - the terrorist organization HAMAS.

I'm sure that when Palestinians produce something looking like a reasonable government/independence movement instead of a terrorist organization their path to full sovereignty would move forward (like it was during Clinton times until they broke it with the second intifada).

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