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What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

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Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#101

Post by brabel »

I am Brazilian-Australian, worked for a few years in Australia and then moved to Sweden and worked for an American company here.

The company was Swedish, but was eventually acquired by an American corporation.

One of the projects we were working on started getting delayed due to endless discussions about which tech to use and how to architect things (the companies used completely different stacks) so we could integrate everything. One day, we had a video call with one big Manager from Florida. The guy just started shouting like a maniac and treated everyone, including us and his American team, like crap.

That was so incredibly surreal to everyone on our side, as even the tiniest raising of your voice in our office would've been extremely unusual, and Swedes are one of the most conflict-avoiding people you can find anywhere. After the call was over, everyone was all thinking like "what the fuck just happened" but no one said much at all... we just kind of pretended that did not happen and slowly went back to playing some ping pong and calmly sitting at our desks and doing some work with headphones on.

After a few months, only I was left on the team as everyone just found elsewhere to work.... I followed a couple of months after.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#102

Post by liontwist »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #98
liontwist wrote: post #94

> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world I would explain this as commitment signaling. I don’t know if they really believe it, but they want to show they are part of the team and the talking points. Adults use language in a less literal way than introverted engineers may be comfortable with.

I will say there are specifically some things my fellow Australians do have do in the USA that we would not in our home country. To my fellow Australians; when you go for the big tech job interview you often have to memorize the company mission statement and values. Yes it's a complete wank. You'll never use it internally. But i have seriously been asked about the companies mission statement for Meta, Google, Amazon…

Reading this thread I’m realizing maybe Americans better understand organizational politics, and this social technology is an unappreciated contributor to productivity.

I agree this kind of thing is performative, but let’s steel man the other side. You are looking for a place to spend 8 hours a day doing your most skillful craft, and you don’t want to know what the organization is trying to achieve?

Yes I understand it’s performative, but why wouldn’t you take 10 minutes to indicate you are doing that kind of serious thinking?

It’s like asking a boss for guidance without doing groundwork to make a recommendation.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#103

Post by liontwist »

adrianh wrote: post #100
liontwist wrote: post #94

> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world I would explain this as commitment signaling. I don’t know if they really believe it, but they want to show they are part of the team and the talking points. Adults use language in a less literal way than introverted engineers may be comfortable with.

I'd call this a California thing — or, more broadly, a behavior by people who want to align themselves culturally with Silicon Valley. Work with some Chicagoans (or Midwesterners in general) and you'll get a lot less BS. Obviously this is painting with broad strokes, as different types of people live everywhere.

This does not align with my experience. Midwest middle aged folks at boring corporations are pros.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#104

Post by pythonguython »

liontwist wrote: post #94

> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world I would explain this as commitment signaling. I don’t know if they really believe it, but they want to show they are part of the team and the talking points. Adults use language in a less literal way than introverted engineers may be comfortable with.

This also seems generational to me. I’m an American younger than 30 and the only people at my company who embody this are the senior people over the age of 40.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#105

Post by ajb »

RustyRussell wrote: post #57

Worked for American companies for 25 years. Generally Americans come across as more confident, and yet conform to hierarchy in a way I've never seen en-masse in Australian culture. It always seemed to be that only the most weirdo Americans are blind to relative status, whereas for many Australians it's the norm? Employment-at-will takes some cultural adjustment, too. But for tech folks tends to be a net win. You just…

When the UK startup I worked for was bought by a US company, that meant the support functions were consolidated and the IT guys had to join the US centralised IT dept. They visited the US, and the culture shock started to bite when the head of IT got a standing ovation just for walking into the room. (And this was an engineering company, so the head of IT wasn't the CTO).

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#106

Post by SoftTalker »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #98
liontwist wrote: post #94

> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world I would explain this as commitment signaling. I don’t know if they really believe it, but they want to show they are part of the team and the talking points. Adults use language in a less literal way than introverted engineers may be comfortable with.

I will say there are specifically some things my fellow Australians do have do in the USA that we would not in our home country. To my fellow Australians; when you go for the big tech job interview you often have to memorize the company mission statement and values. Yes it's a complete wank. You'll never use it internally. But i have seriously been asked about the companies mission statement for Meta, Google, Amazon…

Must be an SV thing? I've never been asked to recite a mission statement for a company where I was interviewing (or even working at, for that matter). Most assume I don't know much about the company and a good part of the introductory chit-chat in an interview is them telling me about their history and what it is that they do.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#107

Post by AnotherGoodName »

liontwist wrote: post #102
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will say there are specifically some things my fellow Australians do have do in the USA that we would not in our home country. To my fellow Australians; when you go for the big tech job interview you often have to memorize the company mission statement and values. Yes it's a complete wank. You'll never use it internally. But i have seriously been asked about the companies mission statement for Meta, Google, Amazon…

Reading this thread I’m realizing maybe Americans better understand organizational politics, and this social technology is an unappreciated contributor to productivity. I agree this kind of thing is performative, but let’s steel man the other side. You are looking for a place to spend 8 hours a day doing your most skillful craft, and you don’t want to know what the organization is trying to achieve? Yes I understand…

Company level mission statements tend to be too vague to be relevant or helpful and they really don't actually apply anyway. They may as well all say "we do good things" when the actual underlying goal is "make money".

I do believe in the "When in Rome do as the Romans do" mindset though so i'll happily memorize it 2 mins before the interview. It's just that i 100% openly refuse to accept they are anything other than virtue signalling.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#108

Post by jghn »

pythonguython wrote: post #104
liontwist wrote: post #94

> Americans tend to be enthusiastic about their company mission - in the extreme, believing that they’re saving the world I would explain this as commitment signaling. I don’t know if they really believe it, but they want to show they are part of the team and the talking points. Adults use language in a less literal way than introverted engineers may be comfortable with.

This also seems generational to me. I’m an American younger than 30 and the only people at my company who embody this are the senior people over the age of 40.

As a Gen Xer, I figured this was a millennial thing. Given the age ranges you cite that may still be the case. I don't work with enough Gen Zers to paint them with a broad brush.

But most of the people I've worked with who wanted feel "part of something" had been 10+ years younger than me.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#109

Post by SoftTalker »

martinpw wrote: post #71

> Australians typically play down their achievements, while Americans like to talk themselves up Although this is obviously a generalization, it is broadly accurate in my experience. And it can be a real problem, for example at performance review time when employees are expected to write self reviews, which obviously involve putting their work in the best possible light. Also just general regular status reports that…

Self-reviews are absolutely the stupidest thing. It's a way for the manager to foist off the work of writing the review onto the person being reviewed, and a way to guarantee that the reviews are glowing piles of bullshit because of course the sensible thing to do if you are writing your own review is to oversell your achievements and not discuss any deficiencies.

You're the manager -- it's your job to evaluate and review the performance of your reports. Not theirs.

Re: What it's like working for American companies as an Australian

#110

Post by liontwist »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #107
liontwist wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this thread I’m realizing maybe Americans better understand organizational politics, and this social technology is an unappreciated contributor to productivity. I agree this kind of thing is performative, but let’s steel man the other side. You are looking for a place to spend 8 hours a day doing your most skillful craft, and you don’t want to know what the organization is trying to achieve? Yes I understand…

Company level mission statements tend to be too vague to be relevant or helpful and they really don't actually apply anyway. They may as well all say "we do good things" when the actual underlying goal is "make money". I do believe in the "When in Rome do as the Romans do" mindset though so i'll happily memorize it 2 mins before the interview. It's just that i 100% openly refuse to accept they are anything other than…

All that might be true, and it’s still a bad political move to show up without preparation that indicates you did more than upload a resume.

You’re basically saying “i don’t know how to present myself and I’m going to cause problems for your organization”.

It’s like “why can’t I show up at 2 PM and work until 11. I get my work done”. You just have no awareness and are a liability for your boss.

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