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Ubuntu is coming back to Dell Laptops

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Re: Ubuntu is coming back to Dell Laptops

#101

Post by takluyver »

Ralith wrote: post #91
fbuilesv wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what the current situation is for Dell, but a couple of years ago I worked at a company that sold laptops like this, mostly targeted towards businesses but ocasionally catering to regular users. The moment they saw a cheaper option of the same laptop (no OS pre-installed) they went for that and then came bitching the same day that their computer wouldn't boot. I imagine Dell must suffer from the same pro…

So put it behind a big scary warning, maybe even in a different section of the site.

That's more or less what they did when they were selling Ubuntu laptops before. It seems that despite the warning, enough people unwittingly bought one to cause headaches for Dell. I imagine their margins are thin enough that even a few returns will get a manager frowning.

Re: Ubuntu is coming back to Dell Laptops

#102

Post by sbi »

Ralith wrote: post #94
sbi wrote: post #36

What is the battery life going to be like? I grudgingly installed Windows 7 on my (Lenovo) laptop after using Unix exclusively for 15 years simply because the battery lasts twice as long on Windows. For what it's worth, I bought a Dell Inspiron Mini 10v with Ubuntu Hardy preinstalled 2.5 years ago. It didn't suspend/resume properly and video out was flaky. It died after two years of use (with strange electrical probl…

I run Arch on my 9-cell-equipped T430 and get ~8 hours with wifi, reasonable screen brightness, and light load. That's very close to the advertised life.

On my E520, I was getting about 2 to 2.5 hours under similar conditions (I have the 6 cell battery, however) in Debian; under Windows I get 4-5 hours.

Re: Ubuntu is coming back to Dell Laptops

#103

Post by kruk »

davidw wrote: post #77
acabal wrote: post #3

This is a good idea in theory but potentially bad in execution. What I'd like (and I suspect many other developers would too) is a nice laptop that I can install Linux on, and have it Just Work. What it looks like Dell is providing is a nice laptop, but with a custom build of Ubuntu installed. If Dell's Windows installs are any indication, that means it's going to be loaded with crapware or custom non-OSS drivers. Th…

I got one of the original Linux Dells with Ubuntu on it back in the day, and it was a nice effort, actually. I opened up the box, fired it up, and it was a fairly standard Ubuntu that I kept using without having to fiddle with it all. It was a very pleasant experience, and sold me on Dell. I'll be in the market for a new laptop next summer, so hopefully this goes well. My big worry is finding another machine with a s…

I don't think you can buy those anymore, unless you go for an old one. The last Dell with 16:10 screen was M6500, I believe. Now the best you can hope for is 1920x1080.

Re: Ubuntu is coming back to Dell Laptops

#104

Post by trekkin »

user49598 wrote: post #39
acabal wrote: post #3

This is a good idea in theory but potentially bad in execution. What I'd like (and I suspect many other developers would too) is a nice laptop that I can install Linux on, and have it Just Work. What it looks like Dell is providing is a nice laptop, but with a custom build of Ubuntu installed. If Dell's Windows installs are any indication, that means it's going to be loaded with crapware or custom non-OSS drivers. Th…

The majority of new laptops work out of the box with ubuntu 12.04. The driver complaint, while still fair in many cases, is not nearly as relevant as it used to be. Peripherals can be tough, but built-in hardware has come a long way. Also, IMHO, weather dell is doing exactly what you want or not, they are continuing to support freedom of choice, freedom of software, and the hacker community in general. I commend them…

Actually, most of new laptops do not work out of the box with Ubuntu 12.04 - you need to manually compile and/or install a custom Linux kernel in order to avoid hanging, as it is documented here: http://partiallysanedeveloper.blogspot.com/2012/05/ivy-bridg... and here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2005305.

For some reason Canonical decided to sacrifice stability and focus on something most users don't think they need (Unity).

Re: Ubuntu is coming back to Dell Laptops

#105

Post by trekkin »

scarmig wrote: post #54
joezydeco wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, and I'm honestly curious here because I'm in the market, what is the best Linux laptop out there? I hear people swoon over a particular Lenovo/Thinkpad model, but have no idea which one it is.

Right now I'm on an x220. IIR I had some acpi driver issue--in fact, had to manually white list my model in it--and power management is mediocre, even with powertop. But it gets the job done decently enough.

I have x230, and I have to use a custom kernel, as the standard Ubuntu 12.04 kernel (3.2.x) hangs all flavors (standard/Unity, xubuntu, lubuntu).

Re: Ubuntu is coming back to Dell Laptops

#106

Post by 1zq »

acabal wrote: post #3

This is a good idea in theory but potentially bad in execution. What I'd like (and I suspect many other developers would too) is a nice laptop that I can install Linux on, and have it Just Work. What it looks like Dell is providing is a nice laptop, but with a custom build of Ubuntu installed. If Dell's Windows installs are any indication, that means it's going to be loaded with crapware or custom non-OSS drivers. Th…

I bought one of the Dell laptops that came with Ubuntu a few years ago and I'm typing this on it.

I simply installed stock Ubuntu immediately after receiving it due to the same fear of crapware. But still, having it come with Ubuntu preinstalled means I knew all the hardware would work, as it has so far. Also it means I voted with my dollars for wider adoption of Linux by vendors.

Re: Ubuntu is coming back to Dell Laptops

#107

Post by pearle »

joezydeco wrote: post #50
user49598 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of new laptops work out of the box with ubuntu 12.04. The driver complaint, while still fair in many cases, is not nearly as relevant as it used to be. Peripherals can be tough, but built-in hardware has come a long way. Also, IMHO, weather dell is doing exactly what you want or not, they are continuing to support freedom of choice, freedom of software, and the hacker community in general. I commend them…

So, and I'm honestly curious here because I'm in the market, what is the best Linux laptop out there? I hear people swoon over a particular Lenovo/Thinkpad model, but have no idea which one it is.

I have a Lenovo X220 and a Lenovo X1. Both work well with Ubuntu.

Re: Ubuntu is coming back to Dell Laptops

#108

Post by jshen »

tammer wrote: post #79
jshen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I'd like (and I suspect many other developers would too) is a nice laptop that I can install Linux on, and have it Just Work." Well, the first thing I want is for it to just work. Sleep/Wake should just work. The trackpad should just work. Etc. Oh, and it should all work well. After that I would love to be able to install some other version of linux and have it just work, but having a Dell version that just wor…

Again, it's all perspective. iPads just work, closed game consoles just work. Linux can just work (until the next update) but a lot of the time it doesn't. And that's just the way I like it, because in the end (for me), its the only OS I can configure to such a degree that it lets me "just work".

I'd rather have my trackpad, sound, sleep/wake, graphics driver, etc ... work out of the box than to have an extreme degree of configurability.

You are right, this is my perspective, but for Dell it's also a matter of numbers. Which direction, if they can't do both now, will sell more laptops, cause fewer returns, etc.

Re: Ubuntu is coming back to Dell Laptops

#109

Post by jimbobimbo »

sounds wrote: post #81
jimbobimbo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/22/protecting-the... "Microsoft does not mandate or control the settings on PC firmware that control or enable secured boot from any operating system other than Windows. [...] A demonstration of this control is found in the Samsung tablet with Windows 8 Developer Preview that was offered to //BUILD/ participants. In the screenshot below you will notice that we designed…

That seems to say exactly what I'm saying, please clarify: "... other than Windows," i.e. Windows 8 itself "theoretically" wants Secure Boot turned on. I've read the link; there's no indication that the Windows 8 Logo Compliance requirements force Windows 8 to work with Secure Boot turned off. And obviously, ARM-based Windows 8 systems will require it to be turned on: http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/01/microsoft…

1) Windows 8 on PC works (and will work) with Secure Boot off. 2) ARM is not a subject of this discussion.

Re: Ubuntu is coming back to Dell Laptops

#110

Post by celerity »

There seems to be a lot of confusion in the comments about what Dell is doing with this Laptop. Here are some observations that I've made:

* The image is custom, but it is maintained by Canonical, and one can download Ubuntu independently and then enable a bunch of Dell PPAs for hardware support (see http://hwe.ubuntu.com/uds-q/dellxps/).

* Dell is contributing to OSS with this project. They have, with Canonical and the manifacturer, already built open source touch-pad drivers that seem to be working very well (a rarity on Linux).

* Selling an OS-free website is actually doing the Linux community a disservice. The reason is that it takes time and fidgeting in order to make everything work on Linux (and you can, in fact, screw up your computer if you don't set up fans correctly, for example), and the average developer (and, of course, any other user) doesn't want to waste time making suspend function when they can be working. For this reason, desktop Linux will not gain any significant market share if it is not pre-installed. This project will raise the Linux desktop market share, and thus encourage others to do something similar.

* This project started as a pilot in order for Dell to gauge interest, and they deemed it having enough potential to actually launch. The buzz from Dell (really, the "Project Sputnik" blog) is that if it is successful, there might be a follow-up.

With all that said, I will still not be buying this computer. The high-end version that they're selling is too expensive because of a large SSD (still too expensive), while only having 4GB of RAM. In the age of streaming and Dropboxes, I'd rather keep $200 and have 128GB SSD with 8GB RAM. Plus the screen is mediocre (although the keyboard feels amazing, I tried it at Best Buy).

Edit: Added newlines.

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