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Killed by LLM

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Re: Killed by LLM

#101
post #100
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Man pretending to be woman vs real woman" was just an example used to introduce the question in the form of a party game between humans before moving onto the actual question of a machine pretending to be human vs a real human. At a stretch, by looking at only your quoted snippet you could read that the machine is pretending to be a woman - but that interpretation is not consistent with the rest of the paper. For in…

It is consistent: "A" is a man that pretends to be a woman (B). Machine plays "A" role. Ideal machine would be indistinguishable from a man imitating a woman (it must not be too good or too bad at it compared to a man)

If the goal is to see "whether machine can pretend to be a woman better than a man can" as you previously stated, surely the machine's goal would be to imitate a woman as well as it can? Making it "not be too good" would run contrary to the aim of determining whether machines can pretend to be a woman better than a man can.

My understanding is that you're now instead saying the goal is to see how well a machine can imitate a human male imitating a woman. This still seems inconsistent with the rest of the paper, like Turing's mention of "the part of B being taken by a man", that the example interrogator questions appear to discern intelligence opposed to gender in the machine vs human game, or that a hypothetical flipped test would involve a man imitating a machine and failing due to slowness in arithmetic.

I believe both of your proposed interpretations miss the central idea of Turing's proposal and alter it in a way that would make significance of the test/results questionable. Specifically, it's intended to be a sufficiently general arena to introduce any relevant task/test to determine intelligence (like feeding in chess positions, as in Turing's example question) - not just one oddly specific task.

While it's likely possible to make ad-hoc changes until it's consistent, the standard reading (machine imitating human) seems infinitely more plausible to me. There's plenty in the paper justifying the significance of determining whether a machine can answer questions indistinguishably from a human, yet no reasoning at all for why it would be narrowed to the very specific case of having the machine imitate one gender imitating the other gender.

Re: Killed by LLM

#102
post #101
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is consistent: "A" is a man that pretends to be a woman (B). Machine plays "A" role. Ideal machine would be indistinguishable from a man imitating a woman (it must not be too good or too bad at it compared to a man)

If the goal is to see "whether machine can pretend to be a woman better than a man can" as you previously stated, surely the machine's goal would be to imitate a woman as well as it can? Making it "not be too good" would run contrary to the aim of determining whether machines can pretend to be a woman better than a man can. My understanding is that you're now instead saying the goal is to see how well a machine can i…

Technically, you have a point. But it is unlikely that "too good" variant in Turing time was interesting.
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