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Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

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Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#101

Post by forgetfreeman »

modeless wrote: post #38
forgetfreeman wrote: post #4

The deep stupidity with which this subject has been met by political organizations and the broader populace has caused me to reexamine most of my expectations of "adult" behavior from both groups. In 50 years on this planet I've never been closer to losing the battle with nihilism.

This comment could have easily been written either by someone who thinks the response went too far or by someone who thinks it didn't go far enough.

Thank you for reinforcing my point so vividly. There's a reason 75% of the ongoing covid fatalities worldwide happen in the US.

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#102

Post by ingohelpinger »

jaapbadlands wrote: post #94
blindriver wrote: post #7

The biggest takeaway is don’t lie to the public, no matter how moral you think you are being. Credibility of and trust in the scientific establishment has been ruined for an entire generation. Telling people under 18 to get the vaccine or not attend school, or that vaccine immunity was somehow magically better than natural immunity were the two things that really turned me against it. And this is after I myself got t…

Building immunity via vaccines rather than naturally deprives the living virus a potential host to evolve in. It also means you don't have to contract the virus in order to build immunity, meaning the first time you get the virus, a vaccinated person's body would be more prepared, which means more people could more contract the disease at once, without collapsing the health system - allowing it to be safer at the com…

[dead]

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#103

Post by forgetfreeman »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #6
forgetfreeman wrote: post #4

The deep stupidity with which this subject has been met by political organizations and the broader populace has caused me to reexamine most of my expectations of "adult" behavior from both groups. In 50 years on this planet I've never been closer to losing the battle with nihilism.

Have you considered there were ulterior motives to getting people back to work besides health and safety? It's a power game

Without question.

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#104

Post by g-b-r »

blindriver wrote: post #7

The biggest takeaway is don’t lie to the public, no matter how moral you think you are being. Credibility of and trust in the scientific establishment has been ruined for an entire generation. Telling people under 18 to get the vaccine or not attend school, or that vaccine immunity was somehow magically better than natural immunity were the two things that really turned me against it. And this is after I myself got t…

I'm not a no-vax to any degree, but I agree that one of the biggest problems was lying

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#105

Post by oneshtein »

alex1138 wrote: post #84
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #57

It's disappointing to see how comments on this topic always center around whether masking worked or not and whether it was a lab leak or not. These just aren't that important in the grand scheme of things. It's like we got in a car crash and instead of taking about how we can be safer drivers we're debating which brand of crutches is best. I wish we'd zoom out a bit and look for some more impactful questions to ask.…

Lab leak matters when studying viral transmission (and general characteristics of the virus), especially if it's been enhanced via gain of function research It also matters when the basic doctor-patient relationship is interfered with

If we look at final report of Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic:

COVID-19 ORIGIN: COVID-19 most likely emerged from a laboratory in Wuhan, China. The FIVE strongest arguments in favor of the “lab leak” theory include:

1) The virus possesses a biological characteristic that is not found in nature.

Yes.

2) Data shows that all COVID-19 cases stem from a single introduction into humans. This runs contrary to previous pandemics where there were multiple spillover events.

Yes.

3) Wuhan is home to China’s foremost SARS research lab, which has a history of conducting gain-of-function research at inadequate biosafety levels.

Other biolabs can match this description too.

4) Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) researchers were sick with a COVID-like virus in the fall of 2019, months before COVID-19 was discovered at the wet market.

Covid-like virus is not a Covid-19.

5) By nearly all measures of science, if there was evidence of a natural origin it would have already surfaced.

Yes.

So, yes, it realy looks like a leak from a biolab or a deliberate spreading of the virus in preparation to a war or a trade war.

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#106

Post by forgetfreeman »

yieldcrv wrote: post #37
defrost wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seemed entirely appropriate and exactly on point from my PoV: On 24 March, Western Australia closed its borders to the rest of Australia, and on 1 April, the state implemented borders between regions in the state. By mid-April 2020, the state had eliminated community transmission of COVID-19, becoming one of the few places in the world to do so. Elsewhere (the UK and US in particular) looked like a total clusterf*…

> During May 2022, Western Australia experienced sharply rising cases amongst the highest per capita cases seen anywhere in the world throughout the pandemic. Just delaying it to 2022 according to those same articles, as it had already exited the evolutionary fit population’s memory everywhere else in the world

Use of the phrase "evolutionary fit population" in this (or any) context strongly suggests you support some/most/all of the ideology behind eugenics. Godwins Law violation inbound in 3...2...1...

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#107

Post by ookblah »

trilbyglens wrote: post #74
ookblah wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same. we probably encounter this type of thing every 100 or so years for centuries, just enough for the previous generation to die off and the new generation to make all the same dumb mistakes again.

Not really true, when you consider how many died of Spanish flu in the early 20th century. We now understand so much more, and despite our shitty ha fling of it, we had a vaccine in a couple of years, and lockdowns and testing regimes likely saved tens of millions of lives. Reality doesn't support your pessimism.

i mean, obviously advances in modern medicine has saved lives. it's not like i want to go back to the stone age. it would help to understand the point i'm making first.

you know those movies where all humans band together in the face of adversity? i now know the reality is that it will be full of nonstop misinformation and political infighting along the way. i suppose i understood it on an intellectual level but seeing it play out is something different. we are more idiocracy than contagion.

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#108

Post by dailykoder »

sfblah wrote: post #70
dailykoder wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did that and clicked through the first 5 links. Doesn't sound that obvious to me. I found this one interesting: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10446908/ > More studies found that masks (n = 39/47; 83%) and mask mandates (n = 16/18; 89%) reduced infection than found no effect (n = 8/65; 12%) or favoured controls (n = 1/65; 2%). Seven observational studies found that respirators were more protective than su…

Honestly I think the best advice is to assume masks don't do anything. The point isn't to suggest people run around having parties during a pandemic. The point is to suggest people use distancing as their primary mode of protection. Being outdoors is an excellent defense, as is shown in the data generated by the NFL during the pandemic.

>Being outdoors is an excellent defense, as is shown in the data generated by the NFL during the pandemic.

This is so crazy to me. Maybe it wasn't communicated clear enough, but for me it was always cristal clear that while being outside chances of getting infected are very very small. And people were still afraid and wore masks outside. The government still bullied you, and police could fine you, if you took a stroll during lockdown in germany.

No, I didn't want to go outside or to a party to infect others. I wanted to take a stroll to not kill myself and because I knew there is almost no chance in getting infected or infecting anyone else. And I still was scared of any police car driving past, because the government fucked up. I even remember the news stories of people getting fined because they read a book on a f-in park bench, because they werent allowed to linger outside

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#109

Post by alex1138 »

oneshtein wrote: post #105
alex1138 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lab leak matters when studying viral transmission (and general characteristics of the virus), especially if it's been enhanced via gain of function research It also matters when the basic doctor-patient relationship is interfered with

If we look at final report of Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic: COVID-19 ORIGIN: COVID-19 most likely emerged from a laboratory in Wuhan, China. The FIVE strongest arguments in favor of the “lab leak” theory include: 1) The virus possesses a biological characteristic that is not found in nature. Yes. 2) Data shows that all COVID-19 cases stem from a single introduction into humans. This runs contrary t…

Right and it's not necessarily a causal relationship between that and censorship, but ONCE you see how coordinated it was, it starts looking like part of a bigger effort (David Martin for example has talked about some of this)

Otherwise I might not be so gung ho about it. I would have accepted "sorry, it got out, it's our fault". Accidents happen, but not when you coerce, censor, and make illegal (certain early treatment drugs) tools in the toolkit to fight the virus

Re: Covid 5 years later: Learning from a pandemic many are forgetting

#110

Post by exe34 »

defrost wrote: post #80
exe34 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that only happened because everybody else fucked up - which is of course predictable, you can't assume 192 countries will do the exact right thing all at the same time. so I agree, they just delayed the inevitable.

> they just delayed the inevitable. We did, and the inevitable was 99% double vaccination, very few serious (hospitalisation) cases, very few deaths, at the cost of business as usual within the state and goods being quarentine 'airlocked' in and out across the border.

Sounds like you guys did pretty well :-) Here in the UK we always locked down too late, which meant we had to go for longer, and then opened up too early, and offered people free food so they would spread it around again, which meant we had to lock down again. And we sent sick people into old people's homes and then went shocked pikachu when a load of them died.
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