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Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

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Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#101

Post by seattle_spring »

kiba wrote: post #49
jp42 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What a weird take. Elon Musk's reputational downfall is mostly self-inflicted. I say this as a (reluctant) defender of Musk's reputation, ardent even. There's only so many rounds I am going to bat for the truth when the man continues to set his reputation on fire. Well deserved even? Yes.

Ironically, Musk is sane-washed by mainstream pundits of a particular flavor (eg Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson). The only reason someone would think the distaste of Musk's actions are because of "MSM narratives" would be because they get all of their information filtered through the narratives of the aforementioned influencers. Worth noting that their reach nowadays is far higher than traditional news networks like CNN.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#102

Post by mbesto »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #83
mbesto wrote: post #58

My friend said it best: "EVs are great second cars" I think we're finally hitting the saturation point of EVs as the market who adopted them is realizing their flaws as a primary vehicle: - Inadequate infrastructure (both localized "my apartment doesn't have a charging station" and more globally "I stopped at a supercharger station and it was full of people so my charge went from 100 kW to 15 kW and took 45 min to ch…

> reality is it's not me that's saying this, the used car market is saying this. EVs simply don't hold their value on the used market Those data defy simple explanation. The car with the highest 5-year depreciation is the Maserati Quattroporte (64.5%). After that the BMW 7 Series (61.8%) and Maserati Ghibli (61.3%). So for starters, you have to control for (a) sports and (b) expensive cars. Niches EVs have targeted.…

> you have to control for (a) sports and (b) expensive cars.

Fair. But the opposite is also true...Porsche 911 and 718 are both 9% and 17% depreciation values respectively, which bring the overall averages down too. Not to mention the Model S is #19 in worst depreciation. So there are a lot of factors at play other than simply saying "just eliminate all sports/expensive cars"

> The Model 3 is shown to have a 42.9% 5-year depreciation, around the category average for SUVs.

You first made a point about comparing apples to oranges (which was fair) and then compared apples to oranges to make another same point. /headscratch

You would have to compare a Model 3 to a sedan, not an SUV. Point is, if EVs are as valuable as people make them out to be and the demand is so high for them, then why isn't the used car market telling us that?

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#104

Post by FloorEgg »

tzs wrote: post #96
FloorEgg wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not a bad thing if someone is at odds with both extremes because they are in the center. It is a bad thing if they are at odds with both extremes because they are one extreme on some issues and the other extreme on the rest of the issues. It's like how a house that is averages 68℉ (20℃) by being 68℉ (20℃) all day is a lot more pleasant than house that averages 68℉ (20℃) by being 50℉ (10℃) for half the day and 86…

What issues do you find he is extreme on?

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#105

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mbesto wrote: post #102
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reality is it's not me that's saying this, the used car market is saying this. EVs simply don't hold their value on the used market Those data defy simple explanation. The car with the highest 5-year depreciation is the Maserati Quattroporte (64.5%). After that the BMW 7 Series (61.8%) and Maserati Ghibli (61.3%). So for starters, you have to control for (a) sports and (b) expensive cars. Niches EVs have targeted.…

> you have to control for (a) sports and (b) expensive cars. Fair. But the opposite is also true...Porsche 911 and 718 are both 9% and 17% depreciation values respectively, which bring the overall averages down too. Not to mention the Model S is #19 in worst depreciation. So there are a lot of factors at play other than simply saying "just eliminate all sports/expensive cars" > The Model 3 is shown to have a 42.9% 5-…

> You would have to compare a Model 3 to a sedan, not an SUV

My point is that EV has a depreciation rate comparable to that of a popular automobile category. We wouldn't conclude adversely against SUVs for that number; we similarly shouldn't for the Model 3.

> if EVs are as valuable as people make them out to be and the demand is so high for them

The drumbeat of the last year has been about flagging demand for EVs. Who is saying demand is so high?

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#106

Post by FloorEgg »

matwood wrote: post #77
FloorEgg wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This comment makes no sense. Musk is one of the, if not most, powerful people in the world. He's also the richest person and owns one of the main propagandist machines out there. Public sentiment is skewed negatively by his own words and obvious selfish hypocrisy. For example, "free speech" has become a running joke at this point.

[flagged]

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#107

Post by JumpCrisscross »

camhart wrote: post #100
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nothing wrong with being a right winger, unless you live in a silo that is intolerant to it No, but it's obviously going to alienate a large swath of the consumer base, i.e. most people able to and interested in buying an electric car. > Commenting on downvotes is done to try and get people to second guess their knee jerk reaction It's the only reason I flagged your comment. Also, really? Do you think a speech is s…

> most people able to and interested in buying an electric car For what it's worth, I've wanted a tesla for many years. I haven't pulled the trigger because of the cost. I'm not sure how many right leaning techies there are out there, but we do exist. And when I worked on the West coast I learned pretty quickly that there are consequences if I share my political views. No clue how many more there are like me, but I'm…

> not sure how many right leaning techies there are out there, but we do exist

Of course. But not enough to sustain Tesla's growth requirements. (The same would be true if Musk came out as a leftist.)

Mass-market brands practically have to be anodyne. Alienating any significant customer group undercuts the economies of scale.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#108

Post by chaps »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #92
chaps wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your definition of "distasteful, but that's about it" is likely substantially understated from just about everyone else in the world.

> Your definition of "distasteful, but that's about it" is likely substantially understated from just about everyone else in the world Social media isn't most of the world. I don't like it. But I also don't like most of social media. Musk faced no consequences for his paedo comments. He is facing consequences for his partisan activism. That's the difference between being a public and political figure.

> Social media isn't most of the world.

Not sure why you think this implication applies to my comment. If he yelled the comments in a public square, my comment would be the same.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#109

Post by JumpCrisscross »

chaps wrote: post #108
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your definition of "distasteful, but that's about it" is likely substantially understated from just about everyone else in the world Social media isn't most of the world. I don't like it. But I also don't like most of social media. Musk faced no consequences for his paedo comments. He is facing consequences for his partisan activism. That's the difference between being a public and political figure.

> Social media isn't most of the world. Not sure why you think this implication applies to my comment. If he yelled the comments in a public square, my comment would be the same.

> my comment would be the same

As would mine. It's distasteful. But it brought and brings no consequences. Categorically distinct from his partisan activism.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#110

Post by ryandvm »

jp42 wrote: post #15
sidcool wrote: post #4

Why's there so much hate for Tesla here on HN?

[flagged]

I hate to break it to you, but the political machinations of the richest person in the world will *and should* be high profile news.

This isn't the MSM busting his ass because he's not progressive enough, it's him being in the news because he is extremely powerful and has fallen into the culture war rabbit holes, which sadly, is the driving factor in US elections.

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