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VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

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Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#101

Post by potato3732842 »

fidotron wrote: post #58
TacticalCoder wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think people on here are ready for quite where all this goes. Exactly. People should vote for less government and should vote for those willing to defend freedom of speech. Actually: we're heading towards that dystopian future because of all the government lovers and apologists. There are only 40% of the EU citizens that don't want the EU. It's not enough.

That is only half of the story. The other half is what government there is should be doing a lot more to protect the privacy of people on their territory from foreign state and private entities.

Part of the problem is that the governments have grown so big they can't do this without pissing off their own stake holders.

If you float the idea of clamping down on the privacy violations of one thing in some sector of the economy you'll have the existing big players and the regulatory agency they're in bed with instantly complaining that they "need" these things in order to satisfy the regulators demands for records and paper pushing.

Imagine if there was a push to force cars back to the degree of connectivity they had in 2004. The EPA, the NHTSA, the big OEMS, they'd all be up in arms because they've gotten so used to all the number crunching make-work they've created for themselves over the past 20yr.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#102

Post by tjoff »

epolanski wrote: post #59
Earw0rm wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you've brought China into this, which is the greater scandal? 1) VW Group collects data on its customers. 2) Chinese-made vehicles have potential two-way telemetry and control (we don't know, it's closed-source), and we've just allowed tens of thousands of 1.5-tonne, potentially autonomous vehicles with goodness-knows-what sensor packages, plenty of demonstrated ability to kill, injure, catch fire or block critica…

2) is ridiculous speculation and fearmongering. Why shouldn't I feel the same about Tesla's or any other car? I don't care how much media tries to brainwash us that China is my enemy, facts are that there are way more tangible proofs of all us being consistently spied by US-led agencies, we have proof that from dams to electrical grids the US has one button methods to create chaos in most of the world, and yet, peopl…

> Why shouldn't I feel the same about Tesla's or any other car?

You aren't? You should.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#103

Post by theoreticalmal »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #26

I have a really hard time understanding why we as a society (or various societies) are okay these kinds of things. Sure, I understand that there is little I can do about it, but why are powerful people okay with their car company or phone company knowing everything about them? Are people in California and the EU at least covered by data privacy laws?

There are clear financial reasons for governments and vehicle manufacturers to want this to happen.

From the consumer standpoint, what’s the alternative? Every new vehicle has one of these devices (recently mandated in USA by 20XX). If you want to buy a new vehicle, there’s no option but to have a telematics device installed. If you think you’re competent enough to rip the component out yourself, hopefully it’s not integral to the functioning of the vehicle. If it isn’t, your warranty will be void if you do

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#104

Post by intelVISA »

f1shy wrote: post #84
lobsterthief wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience it’s really up to technical leadership to highlight what will happen if security flaws are ignored. If more senior leadership continues to ignore these issues, then it’s a culture issue and I wouldn’t stick around. Surely it’s all about risk mitigation; some out-of-date NPM package with a minor flaw might cause the can to be kicked, but a major flaw with demonstrable consequences should get priority.

You have a point. The problem in the german car industry there is no technical leadership. From the bottom management upwards they are all politicians. No technical people.

Is that unique to the German car industry? Outside of a few tech corps or some small startups, mainly in the US, most shops seem to 'run' their tech function more like buyer/seller e.g. "here's some Euros in exchange for [thing] we'd like" instead of the traditional employer/employee dynamic where your boss can evaluate your work to some degree.

Arguably they'd be better off actually doing that as a true buyer and just engaging B2B for their easily solved CRUD variants than this weird go-between that combines the negatives of managing employees with the negatives of buying unknown solutions.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#105

Post by Lio »

Earw0rm wrote: post #97
Lio wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t Musk an unelected part of the US government now? He’s also talking about interfering in my country by giving huge sums of money to a wacky Spode-a-like conman that’s already taken billions out of our economy. To my mind we should be skeptical of all foreign interference no matter where it comes from.

I was writing from a US-aligned perspective. If you view the US as a hostile power, then yes the same - to some degree - applies to Tesla. Although I think they're not as good at covering their tracks for something like that.

I don’t view the US as a hostile power I view them as our closest ally.

On the other hand Musk is part of the US government now and he is out to fuck us up.

So what do we do? We live in interesting times unfortunately. We’ll just have to see what happens.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#106

Post by unethical_ban »

f1shy wrote: post #80
gambiting wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>There are only 40% of the EU citizens that don't want the EU. 40% of EU citizens are not right in their heads then. That number should be a lot smaller.

That is a little harsh. Good that democracy is about respecting the opinions of other people.

No one criticized democracy, and it's not an attack on democracy to hold people with bad opinions in low regard.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#107

Post by rad_gruchalski »

f1shy wrote: post #82
checkyoursudo wrote: post #26

I have a really hard time understanding why we as a society (or various societies) are okay these kinds of things. Sure, I understand that there is little I can do about it, but why are powerful people okay with their car company or phone company knowing everything about them? Are people in California and the EU at least covered by data privacy laws?

I am by no means ok with it. And I try to vote with my money when I buy.

> Independence limited, Freedom of choice is made for you, my friend.

There will be no products without those “features”.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#108

Post by unethical_ban »

theoreticalmal wrote: post #103
checkyoursudo wrote: post #26

I have a really hard time understanding why we as a society (or various societies) are okay these kinds of things. Sure, I understand that there is little I can do about it, but why are powerful people okay with their car company or phone company knowing everything about them? Are people in California and the EU at least covered by data privacy laws?

There are clear financial reasons for governments and vehicle manufacturers to want this to happen. From the consumer standpoint, what’s the alternative? Every new vehicle has one of these devices (recently mandated in USA by 20XX). If you want to buy a new vehicle, there’s no option but to have a telematics device installed. If you think you’re competent enough to rip the component out yourself, hopefully it’s not i…

Is this true though? Can't you insist that the dealer or manufacturer disabled telemetry? I've wondered about if there are guides for disabling telemetry at a circuit level on various models.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#109

Post by AlotOfReading »

pluc wrote: post #23
oellegaard wrote: post #13

I own both Mercedes and Skoda (owned by VW) and I feel like both companies are headed in an extremely bad direction. The other day I saw that now Mercedes wants to charge me 200-300 USD/year for navigation and the ability to remotely lock your door. The fact is they let you pay $100k for a car and then they behave like Facebook and other consumer platforms where you pay with your data and can buy add-ons. You can't c…

I think what will happen with that is "performance shops" will start jailbreaking cars. You can already unlock additional power in your ECU by going stage I, II or III with custom and reputable ECU modders and the car feels completely different. It's a matter of time before ECU devs add going around subscription limitations, I think.

Most manufacturers are moving to secure boot by default for all components.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#110

Post by epolanski »

Earw0rm wrote: post #64
epolanski wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) is ridiculous speculation and fearmongering. Why shouldn't I feel the same about Tesla's or any other car? I don't care how much media tries to brainwash us that China is my enemy, facts are that there are way more tangible proofs of all us being consistently spied by US-led agencies, we have proof that from dams to electrical grids the US has one button methods to create chaos in most of the world, and yet, peopl…

Because Tesla isn't owned and controlled by a foreign government and military rival. (OK, Elon is a little too cosy with Putin for my liking, but not to that extent). I think it's reasonable to be sceptical about whether a state that brings us disposable vapes, TikTok and throwaway fast fashion has our best interests at heart.

1) Imagine how biased you are, to throw such ridiculous arguments: China did not invent disposable vapes, those are even banned in their country, it did not invent algorithm-driven video social media and even less fast fashion (Zara was the first huge brand popularizing it, and the clothes were made in Spain).

2) Musk is literally a member of the next cabinet. And you have no clues and are probably delusional if you think Tesla vehicles aren't sharing their data with US agencies. It's obvious this happens.

3) China is not my military rival. Not sure why do you believe that, unless you live in the strange american exceptionalism where US has to be the biggest military dog in the world and if there's another country that could threaten this position it has to be limited.

It has never attacked my country or any of my allies, whereas I can remember many of my allies putting their foot, colonising and fighting China and its neighbours.

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