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Google says AI weather model masters 15-day forecast

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Re: Google says AI weather model masters 15-day forecast

#101

"More accurate forecasts of risks of extreme weather can help officials safeguard more lives, avert damage, and save money," DeepMind said. Did the DeepMind AI say this?

...why else do you think it's important to predict hurricane paths and tornado spawning storms and flooding rains and heat waves further ahead of time?

[deleted]

Re: Google says AI weather model masters 15-day forecast

#102
post #7

This is great from a practical standpoint (being able to predict weather), but does it actually improve our understanding of the weather, or WHY those predictions are better? That is my issue with some of these AI advances. With these, we won't have actually gotten better at understanding the weather patterns, since it's all just a bunch of weights which nobody really understands.

What is there that we don't already understand? Sure there are probably higher level patterns in the weather that the model might be exploiting to make the claimed better predictions, but normal models are just based on physics and people rarely cared to try and improve them based on these patterns before. Mainly because they are too complex.

In short those patterns are only useful because of AI.

Re: Google says AI weather model masters 15-day forecast

#103
post #7

This is great from a practical standpoint (being able to predict weather), but does it actually improve our understanding of the weather, or WHY those predictions are better? That is my issue with some of these AI advances. With these, we won't have actually gotten better at understanding the weather patterns, since it's all just a bunch of weights which nobody really understands.

something interesting is that these predictions can be made, and gives the hypothesis "we can have a better understanding of weather than makes better predictions than our current understanding does"

in contrast to "we cannot make better predictions on this input data than what we're doing now"

Re: Google says AI weather model masters 15-day forecast

#104
post #7

This is great from a practical standpoint (being able to predict weather), but does it actually improve our understanding of the weather, or WHY those predictions are better? That is my issue with some of these AI advances. With these, we won't have actually gotten better at understanding the weather patterns, since it's all just a bunch of weights which nobody really understands.

You will be mocked by the AI hype crazies for your very serious and important question during this time. The reality is no ,we won't learn why and how something works. And it will get much worse in the future. We are trading human learning for machine learning. As time goes on humans will get more stupid and machines more intelligent and eventually we will have generations who know nothing about how anything works and depend on the machines to tell them how to function.

One could make the argument: hey... fifty years ago everyone knew intricately how a car worked because you had to. It broke down so often, you needed to be able to repair it yourself on the side of the road. Now people just press a button and if it doesn't work you have the 'shop' take care of it for you. AI advancement will be no different. Problem is: the 'shop' today is still humans who designed and built the cars and know how a car works and how to repair one. AI advancement can lead to eventually no one knowing anything as models get so sophisticated we just don't know why A leads to Z.

Re: Google says AI weather model masters 15-day forecast

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally different constraints. It’s like saying Nobel prize winning physicists can’t be trusted because they get basic arithmetic wrong Gemini is fast food - it’s not supposed to be the best.

Your analogy doesn't make sense. Nobel winning physicists can definitely perform arithmetic.

I didn’t say they can’t perform it. I’ve seen a laureate get plenty of trival math wrong. It doesn’t matter.

Re: Google says AI weather model masters 15-day forecast

#106
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that everyday they're comparing the current weather against the forecast from 15 days ago. Not a lot of data points to be sure, but perhaps enough to have confidence of very high accuracy.

I don't think that's necessary. You can do a backtest for any point in the past, as long as you only use the data that was available until 15 days before the day being predicted.

This gets tricky. Once you look into your past, you're presumably looking at data that was used to generate your training corpus. So you would expect better accuracy on that than you would find on present/future predictions.

Re: Google says AI weather model masters 15-day forecast

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hard science Nobel is very different from the peace prize, obviously.

> obviously It's not obvious to me. Care to elaborate? The only one that strikes me as "obviously" different is the Nobel prize that isn't really a Nobel prize, the one for economics.

Some people see it as obvious that hard science and politics have glaring differences that makes the meaningfulness of an award for being very good at one or the other very different.

Re: Google says AI weather model masters 15-day forecast

#108
post #7

This is great from a practical standpoint (being able to predict weather), but does it actually improve our understanding of the weather, or WHY those predictions are better? That is my issue with some of these AI advances. With these, we won't have actually gotten better at understanding the weather patterns, since it's all just a bunch of weights which nobody really understands.

The problem itself is a bunch of random weights. There is no clean structure to discover that explains it.

Re: Google says AI weather model masters 15-day forecast

#109
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally different constraints. It’s like saying Nobel prize winning physicists can’t be trusted because they get basic arithmetic wrong Gemini is fast food - it’s not supposed to be the best.

A Nobel physicist that couldn't do basic arithmetic would definitely raise my eyebrows, but even taking your analogy at face value Gemini was not marketed as fast food slop. Google can't be trusted to hype products in a reliable way, regardless of their technical details.

Well, I'm not going to name names, but let's just say I've met O(10) Nobel laureates in physics and at least one was terrible at arithmetic.

Re: Google says AI weather model masters 15-day forecast

#110
post #7

This is great from a practical standpoint (being able to predict weather), but does it actually improve our understanding of the weather, or WHY those predictions are better? That is my issue with some of these AI advances. With these, we won't have actually gotten better at understanding the weather patterns, since it's all just a bunch of weights which nobody really understands.

I’m by no means an expert in weather forecasting, but I have some familiarity with the methods. My understanding is that non-“AI” weather models basically subdivide the atmosphere into a 3d grid of cells that are on the order of hundreds to thousands of meters in each dimension, treat each cell as atomic/homogeneous at a given point in time, and then advance the relevant differential equations deterministically to forecast changes across the grid over time. This approach, again based on my limited understanding, is primarily held back by the sparse resolution and the computational resources needed to improve it, not by limitations of our understanding of the underlying physics. (Relatedly, I believe these models can be very sensitive to small changes in the initial conditions.) It’s not hard to imagine a neural net learning a more efficient way to encode and forecast the underlying physical patterns.
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