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Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

caranddriver.com

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Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#101
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> protecting themselves at the expense of the industry Don't management and shareholders and finance do that? German car companies are among the most successful in the world - Germany and Japan sit at the pinnacle of car manufacturing.

>German car companies are among the most successful in the world Nokia and Blackberry were also the most successful phone companies in the world till about 2007. Then they stopped. Similarly, there's no guarantee German companies can keep their positions for long with increased competition from US and Chinese companies.

There's never any guarantees, of course, but on the basis of current events, there's no reason to expect a big shift on attitudes towards unions.

Certainly the USA isn't going to be a relevant part of the discussion on this, as the only US brand I see enough to even notice here in Berlin is Tesla, and they have an actual factory just outside the city itself.

China is a much more likely threat, as they are increasingly "the factory of the world", and their internal cars prices are wildly lower than even the cheapest (new) cars here[0], and their high-end stuff is also really impressive.

(It may not surprise you to learn the EU has substantial tariffs on imported cars… but it was a big surprise to people in the UK who voted to leave the EU in the hope of boosting UK economic prospects).

Increasing automation is also a bigger threat to unions than US imports, as that allows new firms that may never hire union workers in the first place.

[0] https://electrek.co/2024/03/06/byd-launches-cheaper-seagull-...

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#102
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes advertisers want control, wouldn't you? If they would have control, people would stop going to Twitter and it would die. Similar fate to the TV mainstream media where they only parrot the opinions of their money overlords, and people are tired of that. That's why they go on to Twitter instead, to look for comments conforming to their own world views rather than what some trillion dollar corporations and out of t…

> What is "good speech" and what is "bad speech" for you? Let me guess, "good speech" is the opinions you agree with and "bad speech" is the opinions you disagree with? What happens if this pseudocode is run, targeting your account? while True: requests.post(api_url, json={"username": "@Cumpiler69", "message": "hello"}) Answer: you can't see any other content because you're jammed with someone else's absolute freedom…

And who gets to decide what is is noise/propaganda and what is not? You? Morally and ethically bankrupt mainstream media and advertisers like MSNBC, Amazon, Nike, Apple, Chevron, Nestle, Disney and WB who are gladly using slave labor, destroying the environment and people's lives on the other side of the planet for the sake of profit? These are who you want to be your judges for free speech on online platforms?

What if what you're seeing as noise/propaganda is just other people's opinions who outnumber you? You being outnumbered by different opinions is NOT noise/propaganda, but a natural function of democracy. You can either deal with it and accept you're the minority opinion, or you can keep being ignorant about it and call it propaganda while the emperor obviously has no clothes. Your choice.

Here's another hint: Trump won the elections despite the majority of the mainstream media being against him and pro Kamala (propaganda or not). He won because that's what the majority of people wanted.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#103

This is kind of crazy, Tesla at peak spent 4 billion $. And they used spend less then 2 billion $. And remember, Tesla is far more vertically integrated. Tesla has large spend in research for their battery and battery materials manufacturing. The make all their own chips, including even some on the data center. They also build robots. And do much of their own AI work. I must be that Tesla prefers to have some researc…

Mercedes might be bloated, but they also make over a dozen different vehicles including some commercial vehicles. They also, in my opinion, make vehicles at a level of quality and experience that Tesla can’t match especially at the mid to high-end.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#104
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is "good speech" and what is "bad speech" for you? Let me guess, "good speech" is the opinions you agree with and "bad speech" is the opinions you disagree with? What happens if this pseudocode is run, targeting your account? while True: requests.post(api_url, json={"username": "@Cumpiler69", "message": "hello"}) Answer: you can't see any other content because you're jammed with someone else's absolute freedom…

And who gets to decide what is is noise/propaganda and what is not? You? Morally and ethically bankrupt mainstream media and advertisers like MSNBC, Amazon, Nike, Apple, Chevron, Nestle, Disney and WB who are gladly using slave labor, destroying the environment and people's lives on the other side of the planet for the sake of profit? These are who you want to be your judges for free speech on online platforms? What…

That sounds like you seriously do not understand the point?

I specifically said:

> There's no fancy good way out with this, for anyone, much as I'd like there to be. There's no "your side or my side" distinction here, nor would there be if the world were really so parochial as US politics.

Even if you gave me personal control over everything, even to my own standards I wouldn't be able to get this right. I know what buttons push me, but I cannot rewrite my mind to be free of them — do you know what buttons push you, or do you think yourself immune?

Thinking yourself immune is the easiest way to get fooled.

> These are who you want to be your judges for free speech on online platforms?

If I wanted an example of a straw man, what you wrote would be a strong candidate.

Hint: one of my previous partners was literally a communist, and proud of it. I'm not myself, because I think communism makes the same fundamental error as free market capitalism about the human condition and how the powerful exploit basically anything, not because I think any particular corporations are aligned with my interests.

> You being outnumbered by different opinions is NOT noise/propaganda, but a natural function of democracy.

1) I didn't say "outnumbered" I said "jammed".

2) Jamming can be many things, but it's by definition noise.

That noise can be many things.

Mere disagreement isn't sufficient — I find disagreement quite engaging, hence the fact that I'm replying to you at all.

For other categories, of noise: spam jammed the unbounded free speech of usenet and is a big part of why it fell out of use, and constantly threatens to do the same to email despite increasingly capable filtering;

Also consider the algorithm behind YouTube: 75% of what it recommends is stuff I actively get annoyed by, and last I checked all bar one of the remaining items that I was interested in were literally already on my "watch later" list. That is "noise" which is neither spam (because I was not counting the adverts on YouTube) nor was it political.

There is also "noise" in the sense of being constantly insulted: some thrive in this, others do not, and those who do not will leave places which allow this. Musk is free to do whatever he wants (within the law) regarding the rules of conduct on Twitter, that doesn't mean the people who don't like it will bother putting up with it — and indeed, they don't put up with it, they leave.

This is why 4chan, for example, never became what Twitter was before Musk bought it.

Nevertheless, my specific example was you getting spammed (in the non-commercial sense of the word) by someone saying "hello" on a tight loop, which ought to be clearly non-political, non-commercial, and as far as possible from an insult.

If someone did that to you, on any unfiltered stream, you literally would not be able to use that stream. Doesn't matter the service or the context, if it was someone in real life saying that constantly in your ear then your brain would eventually filter it out for you… or you'd snap.

Furthermore, "being outnumbered by different opinions" is not special to democracy, but also commonplace in dictatorships where the opinions are manufactured — in exactly the same way you complain about prior to Musk having bought the site. The exact claims you make work against you, the exact arguments you make can be used in reverse to claim that it is Musk not Disney et al who are judging you, e.g. with: https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/x-cisgender-slur-cis-elon...

If "majority" really meant "free from bias", it would mean the exact claims you just made about being outnumbered prior to Musk's takeover would force you to acknowledge that you were in fact the minority before hand — but unlike your argument I do not think (or rely on) the idea that "free from bias" is even possible.

> or you can keep being ignorant about it and call it propaganda while the emperor obviously has no clothes

Bonus irony: in that story, the population (and the emperor) was cowed into silence by shame, the majority claimed to see clothes that were not there.

> Trump won the elections despite the majority of the mainstream media being against him and pro Kamala (propaganda or not). He won because that's what the majority of people wanted.

If either of the claims "propaganda or not" and "because that's what the majority of people wanted" were correct, then your other claim that twitter is "a platform capable of influencing elections" would be false.

To the extent that Twitter is capable of influencing elections, it is one of many tools of dictators — and those outside your country who want to influence your politics.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#105

This is kind of crazy, Tesla at peak spent 4 billion $. And they used spend less then 2 billion $. And remember, Tesla is far more vertically integrated. Tesla has large spend in research for their battery and battery materials manufacturing. The make all their own chips, including even some on the data center. They also build robots. And do much of their own AI work. I must be that Tesla prefers to have some researc…

Mercedes might be bloated, but they also make over a dozen different vehicles including some commercial vehicles. They also, in my opinion, make vehicles at a level of quality and experience that Tesla can’t match especially at the mid to high-end.

Quality has to do with production and checking. Mercedes uses much the same methods and tools as everybody else. And in terms of interior quality, are you gone tell me they spend billion on research on how to make the interior nice? That literally makes no sense.

More different vehicles doesn't really make sense either. If you go watch some teardowns on YT, you will see that most vehicles are on the same platform, and use very similar methods. More vehicles increases your cost, but not that much in R&D.

What does cost if they are pushing, ICE, PHEV, EV and HEV at the same time.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#107

Mercedes’ cheapest cars are about the same as a Camry but when you spend more you really do see this r&d spending in the product. I’ve owned 4 - expensive to maintain but wonderful to drive. I would say, you really only notice it when you leave your Mercedes behind and rent a Kia/Jeep/etc. I would like a touchscreen though - in addition to the buttons.

Same with the BMWs I've owned (2009 to 2019 MYs). Is cost of ownership (maintenance & tires) cheap? Not really. Do they have a lot of mechanical issues? Not really. Does it feel like a rock solid, purpose built machine that is enjoyable to drive with a great infotainment system? YES.

I will say the little electrical gremlins can be annoying and pricey to fix, but I'm okay with it. I've owned Mazdas too which were 80% as great and don't have those problems, but with a little bit less "solidity".

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#108
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

many places are not America… https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2024/11/18/ranked-choice-voting...

Places in America use it too.

Maine uses it! Not on federal level.

https://www.sightline.org/2024/09/13/maines-lessons-in-ranke...

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