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Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

nianticlabs.com

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Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#101

Post by IsopropylMalbec »

try_the_bass wrote: post #91
ysofunny wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google actually has released weights for some of their models, but judging by the fact that this model is potentially valuable, they likely will not allow Niantic for this which is totally unfair, every niantic player should have access to all the stuff because they collectively made it

> which is totally unfair, every niantic player should have access to all the stuff because they collectively made it I don't understand this perspective. While all players may have collectively made this model possible, no individual player could make a model like it based on their contributions alone. Since no single player could replicate this outcome based on only their data, does it not imply that there's value…

What you say is fair but if an individual's data doesn't matter, what happens when they ask to have their data deleted under GDPR. is there a way to demux their data from existing models?

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#103

Post by n2d4 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #58
CaptainFever wrote: post #7

This title is editorialized. The real title is: "Building a Large Geospatial Model to Achieve Spatial Intelligence" > Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize. My personal layman's opinion: I'm mostly surprised that they were able to do this. When I played Pokémon GO a few years back, the AR was so slow that I rarely used it. Apparently it's so popular and commo…

It's OK to adjust the title to have more relevant facts or to fix a poorly worded one. Editorializing is more like 'Amazing: Niantic makes world-changing AI breakthrough'.

The original title was not poorly worded though. The new one was editorialized to get a certain reaction out of readers — I promise you the responses on this thread would look different with the original title.

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#104

Post by jzb »

try_the_bass wrote: post #91
ysofunny wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google actually has released weights for some of their models, but judging by the fact that this model is potentially valuable, they likely will not allow Niantic for this which is totally unfair, every niantic player should have access to all the stuff because they collectively made it

> which is totally unfair, every niantic player should have access to all the stuff because they collectively made it I don't understand this perspective. While all players may have collectively made this model possible, no individual player could make a model like it based on their contributions alone. Since no single player could replicate this outcome based on only their data, does it not imply that there's value…

“Is a farmer entitled to the entirety of your work output because you ate a vegetable grown on their farm?”

Bad analogy. I pay a farmer (directly or indirectly) for the vegetable. It’s a simple, understood, transaction. These players were generally unaware that they were gathering data for Niantic in this way.

If data is crowdsourced it should belong to the crowd.

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#105

Post by omoikane »

relyks wrote: post #20

This is pretty cool, but I feel as a pokehunter (Pokemon Go player), I have been tricked into working to contribute training data so that they can profit off my labor. How? They consistently incentivize you to scan pokestops (physical locations) through "research tasks" and give you some useful items as rewards. The effort is usually much more significant than what you get in return, so I have stopped doing it. It's…

They did at least published their research, and also dataset for 655 places:

https://research.nianticlabs.com/mapfree-reloc-benchmark

This was linked the news post (search for "data that we released").

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#106

Post by earleybird »

bastloing wrote: post #88
relyks wrote: post #20

This is pretty cool, but I feel as a pokehunter (Pokemon Go player), I have been tricked into working to contribute training data so that they can profit off my labor. How? They consistently incentivize you to scan pokestops (physical locations) through "research tasks" and give you some useful items as rewards. The effort is usually much more significant than what you get in return, so I have stopped doing it. It's…

The game is free, there has to be some way for them to profit, interesting to see this was it.

When ever it's free, it's all about the data.

I recall having a conversation circa 2004/5 with a colleague that Google was an AI company, not a search company.

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#107

Post by spencerflem »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #47
chottocharaii wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this perspective. Why should I resent the creation of value from behaviours that I would be doing anyway.

You're mislabeling rent-seeking as value creation. Perhaps this is the root of your misunderstanding?

Tbh, I'm not sure its rent seeking, but whether the 'value' is for the company or for society is extremely questionable

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#108

Post by [deleted] »

CaptainFever wrote: post #43
relyks wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, do you really think that? I did it from having a desire to contribute to the conversation and I was aware that that would be a future possibility :) I'm not really getting much in return or being incentivized by Y combinator

I think the joke was that it's kind of the same with Pokemon GO. You play the game mainly because it's fun or lets you get some exercise in, so it's not really a bad thing that the company used the data to train a useful model. You're still having fun or doing exercise regardless of what they do with the data. Essentially, it's a positive externality: https://www.economicshelp.org/micro-economic-essays/marketfa... Bu…

[deleted]

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#109

Post by underlipton »

relyks wrote: post #20

This is pretty cool, but I feel as a pokehunter (Pokemon Go player), I have been tricked into working to contribute training data so that they can profit off my labor. How? They consistently incentivize you to scan pokestops (physical locations) through "research tasks" and give you some useful items as rewards. The effort is usually much more significant than what you get in return, so I have stopped doing it. It's…

My reaction, also.

"You used me... for LAND DEVELOPMENT! ...That wasn't very nice."

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#110

Post by underlipton »

ggm wrote: post #65

Not wanting to over-do it, but is there possibly an argument the data about geospatial should be in the commons and google have some obligation to put the data back into the commons? I'm not arguing to a legal basis but if it's crowdsourced, then the inputs came from ordinary people. Sure, they signed to T&Cs. Philosophically, I think knowledge, facts of the world as it is, even the constructed world, should be publi…

There's an "illegal child labor" angle to it, I suspect, T&Cs be damned.
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