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Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

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Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#101
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you think the fentanyl is coming from ?

I'm not inclined to hold that against 1.4 billion people and I'm guessing most others aren't either

"China" as it appears on the global stage is not 1.4 billion people, it's more like 10 maximum, and the other 1399999990 just do their bidding.

The fact there's fentanyl production and export means the 10 people don't mind it, and 1399999990 were not consulted.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Destroyed by who - the US or Taiwan? If by Taiwan, IMO it is extremely unlikely. Scorched earth tactics have only been used by the most bitter, determined combatants in a conflict, who are expecting a long protracted war. The cutting edge chips have enormous economic value but virtually no immediate or even medium term military value to China (the time it would take to design and start using them in hardware is years…

autoritarians ruin everything they touch,corrupting all things innovative . They cant even run stockpile logistics in the long run.

Yes, the huge advantage the US have is the ploddering, bullying, all powerful party. Sometimes I think in a funny way the CCP and the US government both want the same thing - the suppression of the economic development of China.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#103
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is ideological, but it isn't anything like China thinking that a "free, democratic society" is a threat. China has gotten incredibly rich under the CCP, the average stance is that its a great model. China thinks of Taiwan as a rogue province because of nationalism . A country of ethnic Chinese is both a reminder of the century of humiliation, and an affront to the idea of China being the nation of Chinese people.…

> China thinks of Taiwan as a rogue province because of nationalism To explain: Taiwan was like the Jerusalem of CCP. The CCP was originally founded as a Leninism crusade on May 4th 1919 because League of Nations fuck-ups

I really want to dig into this further. Can you share any good resources (pod casts or equivalent I can listen to) that cover the history here?

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#104
post #39
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There exists a third possibility where the US and China sign an under the table deal for China to invade, the US to saber rattle and China to allow the flow of chips to continue. The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind.

> The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind. This idea that the US is protecting Taiwan for its semiconductor prowess (aka the "silicon shield") is a very confusing idea to me as it ignores the period from the 40's to the 90's when Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing that wasn't being done as wel…

China didn't have ICBM capability until like 1980. There was much less risk declaring Taiwan support until then, and after that China feigned liberalization just enough to not be seen as a threat.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ban exists as good politics (we don't ship to our adversaries) Do normal people really view china as an adversary? I see this constantly being pushed by politicians and pundits but, unlike other countries in my lifetime, I don't really see that much animosity from normal folk. Expats who resent the PRC? Absolutely. Racism? Definitely. But there's not much appetite for the demonization of our largest trade partn…

Not sure why you're getting downvotes, it's a legitimate question. There are different kinds of adversary. A traditional tactic in politics is to find someone to blame. Trump blames immigrants, Muslims and China. He translated this into economic action by putting tarrifs on Chinese goods. (Tarrifs are a terrible idea, but one of the few things the president can do unilaterally.) Thanks to his years of anti-chinese rh…

> Thanks to his years of anti-chinese rhetoric, I think there's a substantial number of people who gave drunk that kool-aid and see China as adversarial.

I agree. You actually see this on HN a lot too. Many here swear they didn’t become another “china bad” parrot because of the Trump years. But to me, the Trump years was the start of it all for most.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#106
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's less incentive for China to control Taiwan. a very minor effect imho. china doesn't want to control taiwan due to any economic reasons. It's ideological. China doesn't want the model of a free, democratic society of chinese people to exist, because it proves that the CCP's authoritarianism isn't the only "good" model. Look at how hong kong was cracked down; china took the opportunity to do it, when the econ…

> china doesn't want to control taiwan due to any economic reasons That's absolutely not true if only for the existence of TSMC.

if China invades Taiwan, there won't be much of TSMC left standing by the end.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#107

Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…

> As long as back-channels exist to supply the chips to China, then there's less incentive for China to control Taiwan. The ban exists as good politics (we don't ship to our adversaries) while the back-channels ensure they aren't forced into a position no-one wants them to be in.

Funny I was just literally thinking about this a few minutes before I opened this thread.

I think the TSMC restrictions on China is really bad for Taiwan in the next few years. First, it’s a huge revenue loss for Taiwan. Second, it creates a scenario in which China would take military action on Taiwan if they fall behind too far in AI due to the lack of the most advanced chips.

If I’m a Taiwan citizen, I would clamor for the government to negotiate with the US and Chinese government to allow Chinese companies to use TSMC fabs. It’s one sure way to delay military action.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#108
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Chinese citizens know the US exists? This feels like projection. The US wants to act as if stock markets and political yard signs are the only usable system.

> But Chinese citizens know the US exists? of course, but the US is not mostly composed of chinese people. It is common belief in china that the state governance by the CCP is doing good for the country, and the proof is economic progress, material wealth and geopolitical strength.

I can't blame them. They have become a superpower on the world stage, and they have made some super interesting moves to further that along.

One very notable take is that some assert China is "exporting" parts of their population to ensure their people and culture can grow elsewhere, presumably to eventually have more influence over those places in the future.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#109
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind. This idea that the US is protecting Taiwan for its semiconductor prowess (aka the "silicon shield") is a very confusing idea to me as it ignores the period from the 40's to the 90's when Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing that wasn't being done as wel…

I am reasonably familiar with it, you're missing mentioning why the US defended Taiwan initially. The US stopped any formal defense of Taiwan in 1980, not to the 1990s. During the period it did have a defense treaty it was within the context of creating an anti communist bulwark, and such defence treaties (even with highly suspect partners) was the bread and butter of geopolitics in the Cold War. It was not because o…

What One China policy did the US sign? China has a One China Principal which some countries uphold, but the US is not one of them. Our _policy_ is to acknowledge China’s position but does not endorse or challenge it. Chinese diplomats are eternally trying to conflate the two, saying even the US admits there is but one China, and thus supports China’s position on the Taiwan question, but that is not true.

As for the silicon shield, yes it’s probably a major factor, but not close to the only factor. If PRC realizes its claims over Taiwan and the South China Sea, the entire region, including many US allies, will be under Chinese hegemony. It would spell the end of the current economic order. Japan, Philippines, basically all of East and Southeast Asia would then be trading within China’s new backyard.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#110
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China doesn't want the model of a free, democratic society of chinese people to exist, because it proves that the CCP's authoritarianism isn't the only "good" model. So was everything with Taiwan hunky dory when they were a murderous military dictatorship for all those decades[1]? I thought the under-mentioned beef China had with Taiwan was the fact that the ROC took (and retains to this day) all the priceless cult…

Logically speaking if they weren't taken they would have been destroyed

Because red guard destroyed them and hung the bourgeois trying to keep them safe.

All the art in Beijing summer palace is fake. It got destroyed by these folk's. Same story all over China.

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