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My Time Working at Stripe

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Re: My Time Working at Stripe

#101

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

TrainedMonkey wrote: post #58
cpursley wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty nuts, putting out your dirty laundry in public is a surefire way to self sabotage - especially in a work setting. In American culture, there’s a lot of “positive self help” talk about being open about these things. But the reality is - it actually just provides drama and ammunition to people who might not have your best interests at heart. Some things are best kept between your close trusted friends and f…

> Some things are best kept between your close trusted friends and family or therapist, no matter how trendy the culture is about being “open”. This makes total sense if you have a therapist and / or have friends you can be vulnerable with (and know how to). But there are undoubtedly those who do not have that. For them the risk of career sabotage vs a change of improved quality of life might be worth considering. I…

I also agree with this sentiment but at the same time I think it boils down to how you interpret these things , for op it was one of the greatest things but to somebody else , this makes boss not likeable.

I think this shows that the boss was going out of his way which I "personally" appreciate.

I don't know what people expect managers / boss to do. Somebody on team expects their boss to X and somebody else on that same team expects their boss to be anything but X.

If I ever become a manager , I am probably taking this boss's approach , I think its good to have some talks like this. I am also much inspired by the likes of charles schwab and dale carnegie's how to win friends and influence people so probably there is a bias here

Re: My Time Working at Stripe

#102

Post by yunohn »

soneca wrote: post #42
DeathArrow wrote: post #31

>he asked the team, “for this meeting I’d like us to try and introduce ourselves a little differently. If you’re comfortable, I’d like us to try and be 10% more vulnerable than we normally would in a work setting.” I remember feeling a mix of anxiety and excitement rise in my chest. I sat pondering what I would share. I decided to go for more than 10%. I shared about how my marriage had almost collapsed a couple year…

Well, the manager asked only for “10% more vulnerable”. That seems pretty far from “being forced into group therapy” in my perception. It was the author and colleagues that decided to overstate, and seemingly did not regret. Groups of humans sometimes have connections like these, whatever the environment they are in. I am sure other similar meeting with the same prompt only generated people saying they have two cats,…

I’ve heard of exactly these “vulnerability sharing” exercises from colleagues, but luckily have not experienced it myself.

Anyone starting to over-share becomes very problematic, because it forces everyone to conform. One of my colleagues didn’t feel like sharing anything personal, and he was silently outcast for the rest of the offsite and it continued to bite him in the ass for the rest of his time in that team.

The examples were very similar to those mentioned - people talking about their divorces, sex life, etc. I don’t think it’s fair to force colleagues to share such stories with each other.

Re: My Time Working at Stripe

#103

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

varispeed wrote: post #61
DeathArrow wrote: post #31

>he asked the team, “for this meeting I’d like us to try and introduce ourselves a little differently. If you’re comfortable, I’d like us to try and be 10% more vulnerable than we normally would in a work setting.” I remember feeling a mix of anxiety and excitement rise in my chest. I sat pondering what I would share. I decided to go for more than 10%. I shared about how my marriage had almost collapsed a couple year…

> I’d like us to try and be 10% more vulnerable than we normally would I would have reported manager to HR for this and if they didn't take action I would take company to tribunal. This is pure simple coercion into sharing personal data that then other workers could use against you. I can't see the world where sharing personal stuff at work is ever appropriate, let alone be subjected to peer pressure to share it.

This isn't and shouldn't be the typical response to such things.

The boss had also become vulnerable asking you to be 10% more vulnerable.

I think I would respect it more than harsh cold calculating boss.

And also the chinese gospel's taking its effect here , the post above this paraphrased it differently and this has taken it to completely different level.

Nobody is forcing you with a gun to tell things or else you are fired

the boss just said , " Hey if you are comfortable , lets try to be a little vulnerable " and if you didn't like it you could've said " hey boss , I appreciate your gesture but I really really wouldn't like to share it as it would be a violation of my privacy , hope you understand "

This would probably be my approach if I was one of those people who hated boss asking him such thing but I don't. I think I like it.

Re: My Time Working at Stripe

#104

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

Agingcoder wrote: post #51
DeathArrow wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What you are experiencing is the symptom of working in a large company where no matter how well you perform, you can not significantly move the needle yourself. You can't move the needle unless you are part of management and learn how to do politics. Large companies mean lots of politics being done. And you want to position yourself on the part of the winning team. Also, people skills always trumps technical skills.…

This is an extremely important piece of advice. To drive change in a large org, you will need support, which will either come from management, or people on the ground - this is purely people skills. Just writing amazing code and shipping it isn’t enough.

hmm surprising because I had mentioned how to win friends and influence people book by dale carnegie in some other comment on this post and one of the most sticky / remembered lines of this book is that even in a highly technical post , much of the success (approx 70% IIRC) can be because of having people skills.

People skills matter , But I suppose in large organisations. I don't think people skills matter "that much" in open source (other than documentation and hey not messing up like attomatic and being a little bit nicer in general)

Hell we should all try to be a little nicer in general , not just in open source.

Re: My Time Working at Stripe

#105

Post by yunohn »

wkjagt wrote: post #92

There's a lot of comments on the "10% more vulnerable" part of the post in here that amount to "I just owe the company work hours, and they owe me money", and a strong aversion to showing anything resembling human connection going slightly further than "how are you", "fine". One commented even called the question by the manager "abuse", and suggested the manager should be fired. But if on most days we're spending mos…

I’ve heard of cases where not sharing vulnerability in such a setting led to others (who did) being offended and subsequent othering. While arguing the manager needs to be fired is a bit too far, you do need to consider the power differential and how it forces conformance from everyone.

Re: My Time Working at Stripe

#106

Post by ruthmarx »

DeathArrow wrote: post #31

>he asked the team, “for this meeting I’d like us to try and introduce ourselves a little differently. If you’re comfortable, I’d like us to try and be 10% more vulnerable than we normally would in a work setting.” I remember feeling a mix of anxiety and excitement rise in my chest. I sat pondering what I would share. I decided to go for more than 10%. I shared about how my marriage had almost collapsed a couple year…

10% more vulnerable than normal is open to interpretation. You don't need to lie or put anyone on a list, it's just an attempt to foster persona relations between a team, the idea being with a little empathy and knowledge of each other people might be more likely to resolve future differences amicably.

Re: My Time Working at Stripe

#107

Post by molochai »

hosteur wrote: post #90
wkjagt wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post: "If you’re comfortable, I’d like us to try and be 10% more vulnerable" This comment: "I'd rather not have my manager forcing me to do group therapy." How did "if you’re comfortable" become "forcing me", and "try and be 10% more vulnerable" become "group therapy"?

Probably because of the power asymmetry.

Power asymmetry and also group pressure. There is still plenty of tacit pressure to share despite the "optional" caveat. Someone who says directly "I don't like this, no thank you" even in very deferential words will garner some degree of negativity, either from the manager or the group. Same for someone who shares too much and winds up sobbing, or someone who shares a vulnerability inconsequential in comparison to what others share.

Re: My Time Working at Stripe

#108

Post by kroolik »

wkjagt wrote: post #84
DeathArrow wrote: post #31

>he asked the team, “for this meeting I’d like us to try and introduce ourselves a little differently. If you’re comfortable, I’d like us to try and be 10% more vulnerable than we normally would in a work setting.” I remember feeling a mix of anxiety and excitement rise in my chest. I sat pondering what I would share. I decided to go for more than 10%. I shared about how my marriage had almost collapsed a couple year…

Post: "If you’re comfortable, I’d like us to try and be 10% more vulnerable" This comment: "I'd rather not have my manager forcing me to do group therapy." How did "if you’re comfortable" become "forcing me", and "try and be 10% more vulnerable" become "group therapy"?

Its not difficult to imagine a person saying 'i have nothing i want to share here' be stigmatised in future. As a person who doesnt want to work together and be part of the company culture.

Re: My Time Working at Stripe

#109

Post by gus_massa »

silisili wrote: post #7

Well written. The one thing that immediately pissed me off was you doing something awesome, then having management attack you for reason X, where X attacks everything but the results. The reason never really matters, the real reason is that you threatened them in some manner and they need to justify their job. Honestly, I would have just quit at that point. You're a saint for staying any longer. This sounds like an a…

Perhaps just a bad mánager, he got a better review with the new manager.

Re: My Time Working at Stripe

#110

Post by dabeeeenster »

DeathArrow wrote: post #31

>he asked the team, “for this meeting I’d like us to try and introduce ourselves a little differently. If you’re comfortable, I’d like us to try and be 10% more vulnerable than we normally would in a work setting.” I remember feeling a mix of anxiety and excitement rise in my chest. I sat pondering what I would share. I decided to go for more than 10%. I shared about how my marriage had almost collapsed a couple year…

If you did this in the UK you can be guaranteed a meeting with HR. Absolutely mind blowing.
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