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Jaywalking legalized in New York City

theguardian.com

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Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#101

Post by bell-cot »

pm3003 wrote: post #49
e1g wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an identity crisis in Germany when, at 2am on a deserted road, a group of hooligan-looking teenage boys told me off for crossing on red.

Something like that happened to me on my first day as an adult in Germany. Wide road, Sunday afternoon, visibility over 1km in both directions, not a car in sight. I was accompanied by a girl from the place where I was to work. I had just met her and she was showing me to the nearby convenience store. She suddenly started screaming when I crossed the street while the pedestrian light was red. I didn't get what the pr…

When there might plausibly be little kids watching, I make sure I'm very obvious about checking for oncoming traffic. Repeatedly. Before & during crossing the road.

Where onlooking kiddies seem implausible, I pretty much do the same thing. Far better to be an obvious chicken than dead right.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#102

Post by metabagel »

bragr wrote: post #93

Since they made this change in California last year, I cross where ever when it is safe and convenient. I'm surprised how big of difference it made to the convenience and speed of walking somewhere. No more waiting for 2 different lights just to get to the opposite corner.

I had to look this up. "Safe jaywalking" is legal in California, but if you risk a collision, you can be cited.

----------

VC 21955. (a) Between adjacent intersections controlled by traffic control signal devices or by police officers, pedestrians shall not cross the roadway at any place except in a crosswalk.

(b) (1) A peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, shall not stop a pedestrian for a violation of subdivision (a) unless a reasonably careful person would realize there is an immediate danger of a collision with a moving vehicle or other device moving exclusively by human power.

(2) This subdivision does not relieve a pedestrian from the duty of using due care for their safety.

(3) This subdivision does not relieve a driver of a vehicle from the duty of exercising due care for the safety of any pedestrian within the roadway.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#103

Post by metabagel »

nobody9999 wrote: post #89
gxonatano wrote: post #87

Let's not forget that jaywalking was essentially created by the automotive industry and its lobbyists, to make life more convenient for drivers. It started in car-heavy places like California, and eventually became a law virtually everywhere in the US, but was never really enforced in New York City, where most people walk or take public transit, rather than drive. If, like most New Yorkers, you walk several kilometer…

>New Yorkers don't have a concept of "jaywalking"; it's just "walking." As a general rule, I watch the cars and not the traffic lights. Mostly because many motorists (and NYC buses are the worst!) often don't pay attention to pedestrians, intersections or traffic lights. In fact, I'm more careful when walking through an intersection than in the middle of the street.

Yes, crossing at intersections is much more complex, with traffic typically coming from many more directions than away from intersections.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#104

Post by prophesi »

Gud wrote: post #99
bragr wrote: post #93

Since they made this change in California last year, I cross where ever when it is safe and convenient. I'm surprised how big of difference it made to the convenience and speed of walking somewhere. No more waiting for 2 different lights just to get to the opposite corner.

As a veteran jaywalker, let me propose that you avoid crossing at junctions, where crossings are usually located, ideally cross at one leg, especially good if it’s a one way street. Less traffic, fewer inputs/outputs to keep under observations.

Where I live, just about all of the downtown streets are one-ways and it does wonders for getting around both on foot and in an automobile. Though the latter will be more punishing if you don't know the lay of the land, and there will be congestion near on-ramps during rush hour.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#105

Post by fourteenfour »

pm3003 wrote: post #57
keiferski wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany and Poland both do this.

In Poland I always respect the pedestrian lights. Contrary to France and even Germany, drivers expect you to respect them, and especially in Warsaw there is a very high tolerance on speeding on big wide arters. Cars crossing intersections at speeds of more than 90km/h (7.8 furlongs per minute for Americans) are usual in Warsaw.

56mph

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#106

Post by Mawr »

reedf1 wrote: post #20
readthenotes1 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking pedestrians to cross streets where cars are stopped and they are mostly protected? How is that broken?

Granted you've misinterpreted the posters point - but I will respond to your perception of his point (which I agree with). You could easily imagine a world where pedestrians have the right of way on the streets, and cars "request access to the road" in a similar way that pedestrians do. Actually, if this is not easy for you to imagine - it suggests enormous internal bias.

No need to imagine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqQSwQLDIK8

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#107

Post by Exoristos »

nobody9999 wrote: post #54
hnbad wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? Pedestrians can always cross but they then don't have the right of way and have to yield to traffic. Basically everyone can keep doing what they've been doing all along but police can no longer arrest them for it through selective enforcement.

>Did you read the article? Pedestrians can always cross but they then don't have the right of way and have to yield to traffic. Basically everyone can keep doing what they've been doing all along but police can no longer arrest them for it through selective enforcement. As a lifelong New Yorker, I can tell you that arrest is never an option for any violation of the city's administrative code. Rather it's a fine. And…

How do they fine you without arresting you? Tape a citation to your back as you walk past?

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#108

Post by standardUser »

First, let's not forget that jaywalking is one of those "crimes" that is used as a pretense by police to harass people, usually young people and people of color.

Second, as a veteran jaywalker, my rule of thumb is that if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. The goal should be smooth movement for all.

Third, just because someone else is jaywalking does not mean you should follow them! Always asses your own path because someone else may be timing it differently.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#109

Post by wahern »

metabagel wrote: post #103
nobody9999 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>New Yorkers don't have a concept of "jaywalking"; it's just "walking." As a general rule, I watch the cars and not the traffic lights. Mostly because many motorists (and NYC buses are the worst!) often don't pay attention to pedestrians, intersections or traffic lights. In fact, I'm more careful when walking through an intersection than in the middle of the street.

Yes, crossing at intersections is much more complex, with traffic typically coming from many more directions than away from intersections.

And yet jaywalking accounts for the majority of pedestrian deaths, despite being a fraction of the number of crossings.

Believe it or not, most drivers do look out for pedestrians. Some better than others, but another set of eyeballs is invaluable, especially from the actual car that risks hitting you. Unfortunately, drivers do not expect people to cross in the middle of the street. And they never will, generally speaking. People are constantly milling around on the sidewalk, standing on curbs, doing all manner of crazy things, but not actually crossing. From a driver's perspective, a pedestrian about to cross the street typically looks indistinguishable from a pedestrian just doing the normal insane stuff pedestrians do. Then in a split second they go from normal pedestrian to crossing pedestrian, which is often much too late for a driver to respond, assuming they even noticed, unless it's at an expected crossing.

Yes, intersections feel dangerous and risky. But that's precisely why they're safer--pedestrians and drivers alike feel the anxiety, whereas when jaywalking both the pedestrian and car often don't sense any risk at all.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#110

Post by bragr »

metabagel wrote: post #102
bragr wrote: post #93

Since they made this change in California last year, I cross where ever when it is safe and convenient. I'm surprised how big of difference it made to the convenience and speed of walking somewhere. No more waiting for 2 different lights just to get to the opposite corner.

I had to look this up. "Safe jaywalking" is legal in California, but if you risk a collision, you can be cited. ---------- VC 21955. (a) Between adjacent intersections controlled by traffic control signal devices or by police officers, pedestrians shall not cross the roadway at any place except in a crosswalk. (b) (1) A peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the…

>I cross where ever when it is safe and convenient
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