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Care Doesn't Scale

stevenscrawls.com

101–110 of 382 posts

Re: Care Doesn't Scale

#101

> There was some pain in that realization. So many of my utopian dreams—what if we could live in a society where everyone can get the food, the housing, the healthcare, the opportunities for growth that they deserve—come from a place of wishing that we could live in a world where people are cared for. I'd like to offer some comfort to the author on this score. Food, housing, healthcare broadly... while these are all…

Although it’s theoretically possible and theoretically economical for individual care ‘to happen’, it doesn’t in practice for the housing economy. If anything it’s decreasing year by year on average. Especially when you look at construction quality, the average quality of say new built condos in any major city has gone way way down since the 90s. Of course on average condo designs have on average gotten fancier with…

Maybe it doesn't in America. Nor here in Australia. Some European cities are showing that better is in fact possible by strongly supporting co-operative housing sectors which are better for residents. But that would break the American taboo against government intervening usefully in private markets for human rights (in this case, shelter).

More from a recent report by Australia's business council of coops and mutuals: https://bccm.coop/australia-urged-to-look-to-europe-for-solu...

Anyway, my advice to the author was that systems can enable care at scale. Not to say that our current systems do.

Edit: to be more explicit, I'm suggesting that some approaches to the housing sector in some parts of Europe amount to care that scales; society and governments have decided that housing is a right, and have enacted policies to approach that situation. Conversely, a "we don't care" approach also scales very well with the opposite outcome.

Re: Care Doesn't Scale

#102
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or importing even more foreign workers. Which I'm not strictly against, but does come with it's own set of challenges.

>Or importing even more foreign workers. Except you can't force foreign workers to do shit jobs the locals don't want. They're not slaves.

This does not always happen but it happens often:

They're promised path to citizenship and an ok money. Then they discover that they work for an agency that takes away big chunk of their money. They can not change the employer since they'll be deported etc. etc. And the worst part is that at the end they still have to leave the country.

So yeah maybe not technically but they're slaves.

Re: Care Doesn't Scale

#103

> There was some pain in that realization. So many of my utopian dreams—what if we could live in a society where everyone can get the food, the housing, the healthcare, the opportunities for growth that they deserve—come from a place of wishing that we could live in a world where people are cared for. I'd like to offer some comfort to the author on this score. Food, housing, healthcare broadly... while these are all…

Although it’s theoretically possible and theoretically economical for individual care ‘to happen’, it doesn’t in practice for the housing economy. If anything it’s decreasing year by year on average. Especially when you look at construction quality, the average quality of say new built condos in any major city has gone way way down since the 90s. Of course on average condo designs have on average gotten fancier with…

About housing: I have a few ideas as to why, weirdly none of which overlap with yours.

1) I think part of it is due to our ability to fine-tune the limits. Before, if a company wanted to pass an inspection, they had to be really confident. There were going to be some expenses that in theory they could have avoided if they were better capable of measuring where the line between 'safe' and 'unsafe' was. The end result was buildings that were more safe than strictly required. But now we can get closer to the line, and so buildings are engineered at the edge of safety.

2) Of course, survival bias plays a role here. Who remembers all the crappy buildings that just vanished? It's the same reason we look at old toasters or mixers or what-have-you and say things were so much better-made in the past - all the crappy cheap toasters, mixers, and houses are gone now.

3) Also, as extreme weather has happened more frequently, areas all over are seeing weather different than what they were designed for. Given that the average temperature in Oregon in July (the hottest month of the year) was typically around 65 degrees Fahrenheit[1]. For the past few years it has generally hovered in the upper 60s. The hottest temperature ever recorded in Oregon before 2021 was 107 degrees Fahrenheit[2], and typically there were one or two days a year that crossed one hundred degrees -- occasionally five, more often none. In 2021, it hit 116 degrees. Since 2021, there has not yet been a year without 4 or more days over a hundred. And, of course, this pattern is repeated all over the world. Houses are being built for one set of extremes and averages and getting another.

[1] https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/monitoring/climate-at-a-gla...

[2] https://projects.oregonlive.com/weather/temps/

Re: Care Doesn't Scale

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like the option to die painlessly before I end up needing a robot to change my diaper.

> I would like the option to die painlessly before I end up needing a robot to change my diaper. My dad has Parkinson's and needs a human to change his diaper. If he had the option of a robot, I bet he'd take it. Not a painless die now option, though. As I write, where he is it's 8 o'clock in the morning and he's watching an old Larry David and eating an ice cream cone while my mom gets ready for them to go to breakf…

That’s the idea of an option. Great if it works for him, but having spent a lot of time with Pieter Hintjens (of AMQP and ZeroMQ fame) before he chose the time of his own passing from recurrent cancer, the notion that this is not allowed in order to appease religious zealots is simply barbaric.

Re: Care Doesn't Scale

#105
post #2

This is one reason why we have a state, which collect taxes and can provide those services.

This is not the same thing.

The state is ideally suited to manufacture public goods, more efficiently than private enterprise.

That means armies, judiciaries, policing municipalities, governance amongst others.

They address issues like management of the commons.

This does not translate into scaled care - care for orphans (from the article) still needs large numbers of skilled manpower, which is in short supply across the world.

These services are also often underfunded, since they are not really a first class citizen for voters.

Voters today, are also deeply targeted by emotional campaigns and identity campaigns, since that is the current political state of the art.

The state can be efficient, but some things don’t scale unless they are also resourced correctly.

Such services will also be amongst the first to cut, since “X will render it obsolete”, is a promise as old as time, and aren’t directly tied to overall societal survival.

Compared to something like defense / emergency funding

Re: Care Doesn't Scale

#106

> There was some pain in that realization. So many of my utopian dreams—what if we could live in a society where everyone can get the food, the housing, the healthcare, the opportunities for growth that they deserve—come from a place of wishing that we could live in a world where people are cared for. I'd like to offer some comfort to the author on this score. Food, housing, healthcare broadly... while these are all…

Often, it's the act of preparing the meal by hand rather than pressing a button on their hypothetical Food-o-matic that makes the biggest impact. We can certainly scale the provision of needs otherwise. I agree with the author on their assertions about what it means to care and actually connect with people.

Re: Care Doesn't Scale

#107
I assumed the opposite.

Knew a women who worked 100% as foster mom.

Had 3 children at a time, age 6 to 13.

Everything was well organised.

It seemed to me, child care can work pretty well of it's your main job and you get paid by the state.

Re: Care Doesn't Scale

#108

This is ultimately a dichotomy between having the family unit or "the state" as the central point of governance. Many totalitarian regimes looked at newborns as "belonging to the state". The result is a unified mass person who dresses, thinks and acts in predictable ways. The more power, personal connection and influence parents have over their children, the more diverse society will become.

A false dichotomy some would call that. Children can be raised in units different from the current western perception of "the" family unit. Besides, what countries are you talking about? Have you ever been there and met the uniform mass persons?

> Have you ever been there and met the uniform mass persons?

I was born in Eastern Europe in a society headed in this direction. I observed its transformation after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

You felt the overarching power of the state from as early as the kindergarten. Signs of individuality were suppressed and all children were supposed to do things "the right way". When such an institution decided that a child "systematically misbehaves", it was able to take the child away from its parents in another orphanage-like institution that was supposed to teach them good socialist manners. Eventually some of them would end up seriously harassed, physically-ill and sent to an anonymous grave in the backyard of that institution.

Re: Care Doesn't Scale

#109
>We’re pretty limited when it comes to care. In any given moment, you can only really care deeply and individually for one person.

Absolutely. Society tends to assume that people are interchangeable units and that 'care' is a commodity which can be dispensed evenly as if from an industrial nozzle in a food factory. So we have 'care homes', 'daycare', 'care packages'. We are enjoined to be more 'caring'.

But the reality is that love, which is what we're really talking about, is dyadic.

i.e. between two individuals. That's how it works and how it effects its magic.

A patchwork of dyadic connections is what we may hope for and build.

Re: Care Doesn't Scale

#110
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really true. Marxism-Leninism famously sought to abolish the family and the Soviet union performed quite a few experiments in communal rearing of children in it's early years. The reason why totalitarian regimes end up promoting traditional values relations is that to them the only imperative superior to ideology is survival. There is a reason the Soviet Union backed off from it's repression of religion in…

Early Soviet Union did try to reshape family, but it went back on it eventually, seeing the value of the conservative family model in building social cohesion and loyalty.

Expressed differently: they tried to abolish the family, found that doing so created more problems then they solved, and backed off in order to avoid tearing their country apart.

They discovered that in some things doing nothing is better than doing something, but Westerners of all political stripes (both for or against authoritarianism) chronically make the mistake of assuming that everything that a totalitarian state does is done with some grand plan in mind rather than them just flailing about to find a centralized policy that kinda-sorta works.

Your comment reminds me a lot of modern speculation about China's grand plans. Sometimes a government chooses not to touch something because they learned from bad experience that they'll break it if they do, not because they're playing 4D chess manipulating it behind the scenes.

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