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Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

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Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you have a lot of unsupported assumptions. First seems to be that public schools cant compete with private schools on student success. This seems strange from a public school proponent. Why do you think private school competition will erode over time? Why cant students flow back into public schools if private ones become expensive and terrible over time. In my opinion, the whole point of vouchers is to…

> First seems to be that public schools cant compete with private schools on student success. This seems strange from a public school proponent No, please read carefully. I said if this continues and more money is diverted from public schools, this will be the case. This should be obvious - every dollar on vouchers is a dollar NOT in public schools. That's not a side effect by the way, that's the entire purpose of th…

>No, please read carefully. I said if this continues and more money is diverted from public schools, this will be the case. This should be obvious - every dollar on vouchers is a dollar NOT in public schools. That's not a side effect by the way, that's the entire purpose of these developments.

Why cant public schools scale up and down, just like private schools?

>Because the public schools have no money now because you took it. That money doesn't fall from the sky.

Maybe I wasn't clear. the money follows the students in the form of vouchers. IF more kids want to go to public schools because private ones have become shitty, then the public schools will have more money.

>> let failing institutions fail

>Okay, so you agree with me. If we go down this path public education will fall. Once again this is the nature of this political movement, not a side effect.

It will at least shrink. If public schools get better and provide comparable student education, then they will survive. IF they cant, I wouldnt want them anyways.

>> If you think accreditation criteria are too lax for private schools, then that is a workable objection

>Sigh. No, no it's not. Because then you have a school that has accreditation and curriculum managed by the government that receives public funds. Um... you just described a public school. That will never happen because the very idea is at odds with the ideology behind it.

Public universities have accreditation requirements, that doesnt mean they are government institutions. It means they are regulated. Just like your doctor, butcher, or dentist are regulated but not government.

At the end of the day, what exactly are you worried about? If you and like minded people want to keep sending their kids to public schools they can do so. Is it more about controlling what other students and parents do?

When I have spoken with other people on this topic, their concern is generally the latter. They think that good students pull up bad students, and therefore it is acceptable for them to be dragged down by bad schools and bad students.

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#102
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note: This is a semantic argument. YMMV. That sounds like you're talking about our practice of justice. It is, unquestionably, pretty fucked. I would say that "our principles of justice," on the other hand, a) clearly include "innocent until proven guilty", which would preclude the above question from an employer, and b) pretty well condemn a lot of stuff in our practice of justice, as well, with prison labor high on…

Innocent until proven guilty is a great idea. I'll agree with that. But it's not really implemented anywhere. You're stuck in prison or effectively on parole until you're found not guilty (or the case is dropped), with no reparation. You can also be put in jail indefinitely by a judge with no process of appeal. Which I guess you could call a problem with the practice, but that begs the question: if it's never practic…

Principles are, at least to some extent, inherently aspirational.

You put them in your founding documents and spread them in your rhetoric because you believe that, even if people are not following them now, it is important to make sure the people in the future know "This was our goal. This is what we think is a good ideal to shoot for." That way, they can see it, compare it to the practice, and say, "Y'know, maybe we should do better."

Here we are in the future, and it's not right. We can see the principle, and compare it to the practice. Will we shrug, and say, "Eh, everyone knows that sort of thing is just blue-sky idealist thinking. No one really thinks it can work in the real world."?

Or will we say, "Y'know, maybe we should do better."?

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First seems to be that public schools cant compete with private schools on student success. This seems strange from a public school proponent No, please read carefully. I said if this continues and more money is diverted from public schools, this will be the case. This should be obvious - every dollar on vouchers is a dollar NOT in public schools. That's not a side effect by the way, that's the entire purpose of th…

>No, please read carefully. I said if this continues and more money is diverted from public schools, this will be the case. This should be obvious - every dollar on vouchers is a dollar NOT in public schools. That's not a side effect by the way, that's the entire purpose of these developments. Why cant public schools scale up and down, just like private schools? >Because the public schools have no money now because y…

> Is it more about controlling what other students and parents do?

It's about attempting to stop the American right from achieving their decades-long goal of destroying public education.

I'm not stupid, I can see this issue for what it is. The conservatives thrive on a stupider population, and everyone knows that. It's no wonder that since Reagan our public schools have been under constant attack.

The end-goal here is having no public education at all, and instead forcing children to attend private schools where they will be taught religious teachings and other obviously wrong ideology. In the ideal outcome for the right, those who cannot afford education will simply not receive it, becoming fodder for the next generation of conservative propaganda. Without poor, stupid people the republicans have no voter base to manipulate.

Once republicans stop trying to put the ten commandments in public schools and stop trying to pass genital inspection legislation for school children, I'll humor your position. Until then, I'll stick with the reality that the right simply does not like the fair and equal access nature of public education.

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No, please read carefully. I said if this continues and more money is diverted from public schools, this will be the case. This should be obvious - every dollar on vouchers is a dollar NOT in public schools. That's not a side effect by the way, that's the entire purpose of these developments. Why cant public schools scale up and down, just like private schools? >Because the public schools have no money now because y…

> Is it more about controlling what other students and parents do? It's about attempting to stop the American right from achieving their decades-long goal of destroying public education. I'm not stupid, I can see this issue for what it is. The conservatives thrive on a stupider population, and everyone knows that. It's no wonder that since Reagan our public schools have been under constant attack. The end-goal here i…

That concern just doesn't ring true to me. I'm in one of the most liberal enclaves in the country, and every parent I know wants their children in private schools for the educational benefits.

I have progressive friends who teach in public schools but pinch pennies to send their children elsewhere. It isn't because they want to abolish education education.

I see atheist Chinese immigrants who pay top dollar to send their kids to catholic schools because they know it maximizes their education and path the IVY league.

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it more about controlling what other students and parents do? It's about attempting to stop the American right from achieving their decades-long goal of destroying public education. I'm not stupid, I can see this issue for what it is. The conservatives thrive on a stupider population, and everyone knows that. It's no wonder that since Reagan our public schools have been under constant attack. The end-goal here i…

That concern just doesn't ring true to me. I'm in one of the most liberal enclaves in the country, and every parent I know wants their children in private schools for the educational benefits. I have progressive friends who teach in public schools but pinch pennies to send their children elsewhere. It isn't because they want to abolish education education. I see atheist Chinese immigrants who pay top dollar to send t…

This has absolutely not been my experience living in the south. I've known people who send their kids to private schools for conversion therapy purposes. And our governments are openly hostile to education in general.

I guess it's a matter of perspective. But, from a legislative perspective, this is 100% being pushed by the conservative right. You may have some progressive friends - I don't care. I live in a deep red state, I understand the rights intentions.

It is 100% to abolish education. These people get personally offended if you've went to college.

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That concern just doesn't ring true to me. I'm in one of the most liberal enclaves in the country, and every parent I know wants their children in private schools for the educational benefits. I have progressive friends who teach in public schools but pinch pennies to send their children elsewhere. It isn't because they want to abolish education education. I see atheist Chinese immigrants who pay top dollar to send t…

This has absolutely not been my experience living in the south. I've known people who send their kids to private schools for conversion therapy purposes. And our governments are openly hostile to education in general. I guess it's a matter of perspective. But, from a legislative perspective, this is 100% being pushed by the conservative right. You may have some progressive friends - I don't care. I live in a deep red…

YMMV. Im in SF, so the right is non-existent. Progressives pay 50k/yr for the type private elementary schools. One of them recently had Hillary Clinton as the star speaker for a 5th grade convocation and you should have seen the parents going nuts and fighting for tickets.
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