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AWS and Azure Are at Least 4x–10x More Expensive Than Hetzner

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Re: AWS and Azure Are at Least 4x–10x More Expensive Than Hetzner

#101

Post by davidgl »

puterich123 wrote: post #60
Kostarrr wrote: post #18

Also note: traffic costs. On Hetzner, it's almost impossible to pay for traffic. Even their tiniest machine has 20 TB outgoing traffic (and unlimited incoming). If you used it up (you most probably wont), that's another 1,792 USD of costs saved by your tiny 4$/month VM compared to AWS. (At least if I was able to use the AWS cost calculator correctly). They will have object storage soon, but dont hold your breath for…

There is a nice one-click kubernetes for hetzner if you use the terraform module: https://github.com/kube-hetzner/terraform-hcloud-kube-hetzne... There is also a gpt that you can use that will genereate you the module block based on your requirements.

Also highly recommended https://github.com/vitobotta/hetzner-k3s

Re: AWS and Azure Are at Least 4x–10x More Expensive Than Hetzner

#102

Post by a-french-anon »

CalRobert wrote: post #22

I just moved a personal project from digitalocean to OVH and I’m hooked. So damn simple, cheap, and powerful. Far fewer layers of abstraction.

Been using their VLE-2 offer over what Hetzner gives because it's basically the same price, but unlimited bandwidth and they use AMD Epyc CPUs, which can't be a bad thing benchmark wise (especially memory bandwidth wise).

Re: AWS and Azure Are at Least 4x–10x More Expensive Than Hetzner

#103

Post by redserk »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #36
redserk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can open a ticket and make the weirdest of issues with MSK Amazon’s problem to deal with. Same with RDS, etc. It’s pretty great not to waste time when the lottery for the bizarrest of 0.000001% issues arise. The operator only solves the happy path. An AWS support ticket usually can solve the unhappy path.

Sure, but you can also go to a Slack channel and get help from the people who wrote the FOSS code you're using. For free. Yep, if your Kafka is mission critical and crashes hard, that is bad. But things like Kafka are _never_ a black box you just spin up and never worry about, if anyone thinks so, CAP theorem will give them an awful surprise one day. You're always going to need someone in your team who understands th…

I am expected to produce business value at the end of the day and I wear multiple hats. Paying someone to be the expert in the room is the best value sometimes.

I’d rather focus on my expertise and mental energy in other tools that are much more significant to the stack I support.

Re: AWS and Azure Are at Least 4x–10x More Expensive Than Hetzner

#104

Post by redserk »

hhh wrote: post #73
sgarland wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has not been my experience at multiple companies with AWS, even with heavy spend – your tickets have to make it through a gatekeeper who has no more idea than you on how to fix it, and more triage than anything else.

I only have the opposite. Great support with amazingly deep knowledge at every level.

Same for the most part. Our TAMs have been great to work with and so have a number of engineers the handful of times we needed it. We've had moments of some back-and-forth at times, but overall I've been satisfied.

Re: AWS and Azure Are at Least 4x–10x More Expensive Than Hetzner

#105

Post by redserk »

sgarland wrote: post #67
EdwardDiego wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you can also go to a Slack channel and get help from the people who wrote the FOSS code you're using. For free. Yep, if your Kafka is mission critical and crashes hard, that is bad. But things like Kafka are _never_ a black box you just spin up and never worry about, if anyone thinks so, CAP theorem will give them an awful surprise one day. You're always going to need someone in your team who understands th…

> You're always going to need someone in your team who understands the tech and how to make best use of it. … > And that knowledge sits rather close to knowledge of how the system works, so given you'll need that knowledge anyway, may as well cultivate it instead. This has been my argument forever, and it’s always met with disagreement, because entirely too many people have no desire to learn their tooling. They just…

Or hold off on the academic-style pretentiousness and come back down to the real world.

At some point, we have to decide that there's a lot of knowledge expectations depending on your stack, especially as parts of your application grows.

Say you're a Python-based webapp running with Postgres, Kafka, and Elasticsearch. Your stack requires pretty decent knowledge of:

1. Postgres

2. Kafka

3. Elasticache

4. Linux (and a lot more than what many developers I've encountered seem to have)

5. Kubernetes, because it is 2024

6. Whatever frameworks you're doing with your webapp + ensuring you're keeping up with security best practices

7. + the soup involved with exposing your webapp to customers

Being able to handle any of these 6 at scale require different skillsets. It's unreasonable to expect anyone to be an expert at all of this -- in a real, tried-and-true environment -- especially with deadlines and SLAs involved.

Re: AWS and Azure Are at Least 4x–10x More Expensive Than Hetzner

#106

Post by timeon »

theshrike79 wrote: post #15

...when using bare metal servers. Hetzner doesn't have the services AWS provides, that's the reason most companies I know use AWS for. If we could run our crap on any server, we would, but managed services are still cost-effective vs hiring our own 24/7/365 rotation of on-call ops people.

> our crap

Yeah if people had less shaky stacks. But it is always easier to pay someone to run the hack.

Re: AWS and Azure Are at Least 4x–10x More Expensive Than Hetzner

#107

Post by timeon »

JCM9 wrote: post #54

These types of articles always read like “yeah you could buy a Land Rover, but this Kia hatchback over here still gets you from A to B and is only a fraction of the cost.” It seems lost on the authors that yes that might work for some folks just fine, but others really do want the Land Rover and all its additional baked in features beyond getting you from A to B.

Analogies are not good for arguments. Most people do not need 4x4.

Re: AWS and Azure Are at Least 4x–10x More Expensive Than Hetzner

#108

Post by spott »

londons_explore wrote: post #29
jasode wrote: post #19

>While AWS and Azure are industry leaders, their advantages often only materialize at massive scales. [...] Your comparisons are similar to many others out there that focus on measuring basic cpu and memory. This type of easy comparison where AWS/Azure/GCP is treated as a "dumb" datacenter is easy for alternatives like Hetzner or self-hosting to "win". >Do you really need the advanced features of AWS and Azure right…

Continuing this reasoning... As soon as your startup does get big, it starts to make more sense to try and migrate to 'dumb' machines and save on infrastructure costs, especially if your business is low margin and your infrastructure costs are high.

The flip side is that when you are small, you probably don’t need all the fancy managed services that AWS offers. Simpler solutions can save you money and time.

Re: AWS and Azure Are at Least 4x–10x More Expensive Than Hetzner

#109

Post by ac29 »

a-french-anon wrote: post #102
CalRobert wrote: post #22

I just moved a personal project from digitalocean to OVH and I’m hooked. So damn simple, cheap, and powerful. Far fewer layers of abstraction.

Been using their VLE-2 offer over what Hetzner gives because it's basically the same price, but unlimited bandwidth and they use AMD Epyc CPUs, which can't be a bad thing benchmark wise (especially memory bandwidth wise).

CPX machines at Hetzner use EPYC also
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