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Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

theguardian.com

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Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#101

Post by mvdtnz »

consteval wrote: post #85
HDThoreaun wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was meta I wouldnt want to employ people who are interested in stealing from me, especially when I pay them $400,000. The fact that the theft wasnt that bad or that the policy doesnt make the most sense is irrelevant. The company trusts employees to use benefits with responsibility and this dude used your logic of "leaving money on the table" even though hes being paid 400,000

> dude used your logic of "leaving money on the table" But my logic is correct. If he had just spent it on food he didn't need, he would be in the clear. So then the conclusion must be the policy doesn't work. The policy is very relevant, in fact it's the only relevant piece of information. You want to prevent stealing? Don't offer your employees stipends. Problem solved, I'll send everyone my invoice. This is a simp…

> The policy is very relevant, in fact it's the only relevant piece of information. You want to prevent stealing? Don't offer your employees stipends. Problem solved, I'll send everyone my invoice.

Another way to solve the problem is to fire employees who abuse the perk.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#102

Post by s1artibartfast »

consteval wrote: post #75
echoangle wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you see "accidentally"?

It's an assumption, but groceries are food and I'm assuming the person just threw in toothpaste as well. And, apparently, that one dollar worth of toothpaste was too far.

kind of like "accidentally" using a company business card to go to Disneyland, and then doing it several times over months.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#103

Post by ffsm8 »

infamouscow wrote: post #97
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's your mistake. Abusing the rules for personal gain is a privilege reserved for the rich and powerful. The commoners get the rule book thrown at them if they get caught stealing from their lords.

Most of these employees believe they're elite, they aren't. The natural aristocrats are unaffected, not because they get away with abusing the system, but because they don't abuse them. One has to be remarkably pathetic and morally bankrupt to abuse this in the first place. Meta is simply correcting their mistake of hiring a fundamentally unqualified peasant.

After reading your comment multiple times I can confidently state that the best thing about it is that I am still unsure if you're sarcastic, trolling or actually believe that

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#104

Post by s1artibartfast »

consteval wrote: post #83
tzs wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about using it each day for the food that you actually eat that day? That's generally the point of meal allowances.

I'm not speaking to the point - I'm speaking to right and wrong. If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away. Therefore, people should do that. If that sounds wrong to you, then the initial assumption might not be correct. Maybe it's not so bad to buy the tube of toothpaste. Constraining yourself to extremely h…

>If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away.

That makes no sense, One does not imply the other

I have a business card with a limit of $5k for buying work materials. I might get forgiveness if the materials ended up being wasted. That doesn't mean it acceptable to use my business card to go to Disneyland, or that it is "Right" to use it for wasteful purchases.

Zero sympathy for thieves

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#105

Post by s1artibartfast »

Joker_vD wrote: post #51
xghedrr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Is it really an abuse? Oh no, he used meal credits to buy toothpaste and tea instead of food” Yes. This is called fraud. Even if you feel mega corp X is bad, defrauding mega corp X is… also bad.

In what way the mega corp X is defrauded here, exactly? The sibling comment explains that arguably the IRS can be considered defrauded in this case, but the mega corp itself?

How is it not? There was permission to take and use company money for X purposes, employees took and used money for Y purposes.

It is no different than using my company expense card to book a family trip to Hawaii.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#106

Post by consteval »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #104
consteval wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not speaking to the point - I'm speaking to right and wrong. If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away. Therefore, people should do that. If that sounds wrong to you, then the initial assumption might not be correct. Maybe it's not so bad to buy the tube of toothpaste. Constraining yourself to extremely h…

>If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away. That makes no sense, One does not imply the other I have a business card with a limit of $5k for buying work materials. I might get forgiveness if the materials ended up being wasted. That doesn't mean it acceptable to use my business card to go to Disneyland, or th…

People's supposed issue, and Meta's, is that this was not spent on food. We can fix that.

> Zero sympathy for thieves

I often find that those who process information in such absolute ways are typically simple-minded. I can come up with infinite examples where thievery is not only excused, but the most moral choice.

There are much better ways Meta should have gone through this. And, ultimately, I put the blame on them for coming up with an exploitable and naive policy.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#107

Post by consteval »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #102
consteval wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an assumption, but groceries are food and I'm assuming the person just threw in toothpaste as well. And, apparently, that one dollar worth of toothpaste was too far.

kind of like "accidentally" using a company business card to go to Disneyland, and then doing it several times over months.

Except a toothpaste is maybe a buck, and going to Disneyland is very expensive.

Or have we just forgotten reasonableness? We can just... extrapolate anything to anything?

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#108

Post by questionableans »

potato3732842 wrote: post #42
jffry wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meta [...] usually feeds staff for free from canteens at its larger offices, including its sprawling Silicon Valley headquarters. But those at smaller sites are given daily credits to order food through delivery services such as UberEats and Grubhub. Daily allowances include $20 for breakfast, $25 for lunch and $25 for dinner. So probably a perk they decided was worth it or necessary for morale at some point

I suspect this is a result of acquisitions. They buy some startup, bring them all under Meta's HR umbrella with all the rules and perks that comes with. Since these recently acquired guys are running out of random offices in random places they just give them a stipend rather than force them to all relocate to a campus with dining. The $400k employee was probably a higher up (or key SME Meta felt they needed to put in…

At Meta, $400k would be high E4 or low E5. That’s someone earlier in their career who probably feels fairly anonymous and is used to taking all the deals they can get to live cheaply, even if they don’t need to anymore.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#109

Post by consteval »

echoangle wrote: post #91
consteval wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an assumption, but groceries are food and I'm assuming the person just threw in toothpaste as well. And, apparently, that one dollar worth of toothpaste was too far.

Well it was a credit replacing the food that’s normally available. If the stated purpose is credit to get a meal while working there, it’s fraud to buy other stuff with the credit. I can see why an employer would want to terminate you, they have to trust you and your work.

Right, if you're looking at from a surface-level view. Using such a surface-level view means I could, instead, buy a meal and choose not to eat it. Because the credit is only for food.

But that's worse, right? Okay, then the conclusion is that this basis doesn't work, and you need some leniency. Simply sticking to rules, especially if they're stupid, almost always backfires.

We have to do cost analysis. Is it really worth it spending 100,000+ dollars to rehire and knowledge transfer over a few bucks? Do we really want to set the precedent that we are anal dictators? What affects does that have on other employees in our company?

It's very tempting to be technically right, and then believe that means you can do whatever you want. I mean, you can, but as a company that can bite you. Being correct is not a hall pass from human perception. If you're an asshole, you will still be treated as such, regardless of how correct you may be. Naturally, I'm sure this move eroded much employer trust at Meta - almost all of it being in innocent employees. Collateral damage, but somehow, I doubt anybody sat down and did the cost analysis on if it's worth it.

Re: Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'

#110

Post by s1artibartfast »

consteval wrote: post #106
s1artibartfast wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away. That makes no sense, One does not imply the other I have a business card with a limit of $5k for buying work materials. I might get forgiveness if the materials ended up being wasted. That doesn't mean it acceptable to use my business card to go to Disneyland, or th…

People's supposed issue, and Meta's, is that this was not spent on food. We can fix that. > Zero sympathy for thieves I often find that those who process information in such absolute ways are typically simple-minded. I can come up with infinite examples where thievery is not only excused, but the most moral choice. There are much better ways Meta should have gone through this. And, ultimately, I put the blame on them…

Theft is a clear line and I wouldnt want to employ someone one who didnt respect.

I dont see how Meta has any moral obligation to prevent exploit. They should all have more such policies and monitor them to better weed out thieves.

>I can come up with infinite examples where thievery is not only excused, but the most moral choice.

Can you explain the moral justification for someone with a 400k salary to steal from their employer?

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