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Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

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Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#101
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Indian subcontinent is so densely populated, very few areas can support hunting. It does happen in some rural areas. Sport hunting is not really a thing though. Most Indians (statistically) are vegetarian, and essentially obligate vegetarian due to the population density (also enforced by religion), though ‘vegetarian’ can include eggs, fish, and sometimes chicken depending on the person, time, etc. Indian Muslim…

> though ‘vegetarian’ can include eggs, fish, and sometimes chicken depending on the person, time, etc. What is the purpose of the word vegetarian if one uses it to mean consuming some animals but not others? Vegan = no animals used to make food Vegetarian = no animals consumed Ovo lacto vegetarian = vegetarian that eats eggs and dairy (I guess additional clarifiers in case someone thinks vegetarian does not include…

> What is the purpose of the word vegetarian

For most people Vegetarian means no animal is killed - so eggs are ok.

In fact, some people claim egg is veg to convince people to consume eggs as protein source. For proper clarity, some people use eggetarian for eggs allowed.

Seafood as veg, I guess is more a concept outside India, as consuming seafood is not seen as killing animals.

Depending on how the question was interpreted, Vegetarian might mean: May eat outside, but will not cook non-veg at home May eat non-veg only if veg option is not available.

Kind Advice for the meat eaters when lunch is brought in office:

-- Do not finish the only 2 vegetarian sandwiches because you wanted to see what the impossible burger tastes like.

-- Try not finish the cheese pizzas first and then touch the pepperonis later, if there are people who will come to the lunch table later

It is for this reason I always say Veg so that there is still some count available for people who need it.

Fun Facts:

Food packaging (and restaurant menus) in India show "signal" of green or red circle to indicate veg or not.

Airlines have a menu option of Hindu meal and Veg meal. Hindu meal can have chicken and omelet (or may not). Veg meal could be just salad and fruits. Many Indians pre-order Hindu and get confused when they get chicken. For me it is easier to pre-order Hindu and get cooked food with spices, and I can skip if it is chicken (or ask for veg).

[Jain meal is further restricted to veg grown above ground]

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#102

Many Indians (esp entrepreneurs) don't realise it, Ratan Tata's conduct is the default expectation how the successful and hyped people in India are to behave (not taking a moral stand, rather a factual one) in the society. He was known to be humble and kind and never made headlines for the wrong reasons. Many would do extensive PR, while he stayed away from the limelight. It's remarkably difficult in a country where…

In other words, avoid pathological behaviour.

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> though ‘vegetarian’ can include eggs, fish, and sometimes chicken depending on the person, time, etc. What is the purpose of the word vegetarian if one uses it to mean consuming some animals but not others? Vegan = no animals used to make food Vegetarian = no animals consumed Ovo lacto vegetarian = vegetarian that eats eggs and dairy (I guess additional clarifiers in case someone thinks vegetarian does not include…

Veganism = no animals "used" to make food or whatever (soap, shoes, invivo testing...) Many people here seems to make the confusion that veganism is about the food. It's not, it's about the animals. > What is the purpose of the word vegetarian if one uses it to mean consuming some animals but not others? Languages are not like mathematics, one word can convey many meaning and nothing is stone-defined (dictionaries ar…

> In the Indian context there's a BIG part of the population that have a diet that does not have a definition in the Official Oxford Dictionary.

How does omnivore not cover most people’s diets in India? (in the context of a discussion about populations of people that avoid eating animals)

It seems like Indians use vegetarian to describe frequency or proportion of one’s diet that is animals. Seems like there could be better terminology used to avoid confusion.

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#104

As someone who stays far from politics, ratan tata and tata group in particular are the extraordinary entities who do opposite of enshitification. They dont cut corners (like everyone) and are highly regarded as being genuinely good. Case in point. From a tax perspective, historically reliance indistries was always known for being sneaky around taxes, dodging taxes, finding loopholes and such. Tata OTOH, they are his…

Huh. I wonder what this man “staying away from politics” using the infamous lobbyist Nira Radia for? Oh I remember lobbying and manipulating the telecom licences. It’s okay to like this guy but Tatas are considered saints because not many know their history.

Have you heard the Radia tapes? I have, in their entirety. They're out there to listen to, if you want. Fascinating piece of the zeitgeist.

My listening suggests he lived up to his legacy of above-board, gentlemanly conduct.

Compare Radia's phone calls to Ratan, with her conversations with the rest of the lot.

Ratan is a master class in, well class and restraint.

I think when you're that big and are so hard-wired into the real economy of a country as huge and populous as India, you can't not "play the game", so to speak.

The question is do you remain human despite every incentive to turn into a self-serving gluttonous tyrant?

The TATAs weren't and aren't saints. They are humans we should have more of, in those positions of wealth and power.

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#105
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> animal shelters... is just hunting with additional steps Explain

Since GP won’t, the explanation is a racist assumption that shelter animals would be slaughtered and eaten

Haha wtf that's not what I was going for at all. I was talking about hunting within the context of animal population control. Shelters perform animal population control with a few added steps. Not sure why everyone thought it was about eating animals when the whole danger of strays is because of a lack of animal population control.

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#106
post #84

RIP, as one says. That being said, it always irks me when people worship "philantropic" billionaires. I'm sure he's done good things. But there are no ethical billionaires in capitalism. TATA is a giant corp with a lot of influence, I can't believe that they're a 'honest company which doesn't bribe, pays their taxes and are otherwise clean'. Would probably be the first case of an ethical corporation/billionaire :) Ce…

How exactly do you plan to do business in India without the bribes? In fact after a certain scale you need to bribe in the US too. It’s just that it’s legalized in the US as lobbying and PACs.

https://youtu.be/NzxVjUF6NQ0?t=1739 - here's Ratan Tata's answer - "I want to go to bed knowing I didn't do it".

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#107
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since GP won’t, the explanation is a racist assumption that shelter animals would be slaughtered and eaten

Haha wtf that's not what I was going for at all. I was talking about hunting within the context of animal population control. Shelters perform animal population control with a few added steps. Not sure why everyone thought it was about eating animals when the whole danger of strays is because of a lack of animal population control.

I guess most people think of hunting as a recreational activity, followed by hunting for food. Hunting for population control is usually called culling. Regardless I didn't downvote your original comment. I just found it puzzling.

Additionally, animal shelters don't just sterilize animals, they find them new homes. A sterilization-only effort would be more like "hunting (culling) with extra steps"

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#108

Throwaway account here, but I think we should be cautious about hero worship. While it's true that Tata has contributed positively in many areas, there are also significant controversies surrounding his legacy—like leasing coal mines for just 25 paise for 999 years before independence(1), among other issues(2) It's important to consider both the positives and negatives to form a well-rounded opinion. Let's aim to be…

> It's important to consider

If I had a penny...

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#110
post #79

I'm sure he was an amazing capitalist, but my experience with Tata consulting was the worst. I worked for a division of GE during the Immelt years that outsourced large portions of IT to Tata, and was in charge of the transition. It was a masterclass in waste and inefficiency. Definitely one of the larger nails in the coffin of a former Fortune 5 company.

I for one would love to read about these types of stories, I'm sure many on HN too.

I started a thread here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41800114 let's see if people pick up on it.

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