UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius • Hacker News Board

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#101

Post by dangus » Thu, Oct 03, 2024, 10:09 PM UTC

throwawaymaths wrote: post #53

rich_sasha wrote: post #41

I imagine whoever got the 99 year lease is feeling pretty pleased about it - that's basically forever as far as they can tell. On the other hand, I bet the UK in 1997 would have hoped for a longer lease on Hong Kong.

Probably not. In 1997 they were happy to court the $$ associated with opening up this huge new market of 1b+ "middle class" consumers. Id argue they still aren't sufficiently butthurt about it. The UK has sufficient grounds to reclaim HK since china has very much failed to uphold its agreement to keep hong kong democratic for at least 50 years. I guess that's why the CPC goes on gaslighting rants about "whole process…

In what universe does the UK have grounds to have anything to do with governing a region 6000 miles away from home that it seized during the Opium War?

I would love for China to have democracy, but Great Britain really doesn't have any moral high ground on the issue nor any business having anything to do with the government there.

If you think they aren't sufficiently butthurt about it, I'd counter that by saying "what can they realistically do about it?" The answer is "absolutely nothing." You want them to invade or something?

They can write a nastygram or something but any of the promises involved with the transfer really mean nothing. An analogy would be asking the next owner of your car to not play any Britney Spears on the radio. Good luck enforcing that.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#102

Post by aguaviva » Thu, Oct 03, 2024, 10:11 PM UTC

bpodgursky wrote: post #11

> African nations began to speak with one voice on the issue, pushing the UK hard on the issue of decolonialisation. I wish the journalists had a little more sophistication on this. African nations began to push the UK on this because China and Russia understand that Diego Garcia is a critical port, and made investment + aid/ bribery + weapons (China / Russia respectively) conditional on forcing the issue.

In other words: The African nations have no agency or legitimate motivations of their own, and are just doing what China and Russia bully them to do. Apparently they don't even appreciate the significance of the military base on those islands. It is left for the adults in the room (Russia and China) to think and operate on such a level.

Of course no one here is naive, and we all know already that external operators have their influence, and (though the commenter provides no evidence) it's certainly possible, likely even, that such influence came into play here to some degree.

Nonetheless, the commenter's phrasing and implicit attitude toward these nations seems weirdly patronizing and, well, colonial.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#103

Post by dangus » Thu, Oct 03, 2024, 10:16 PM UTC

ethbr1 wrote: post #80

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think China is increasingly driven by the ego of Xi Jinping and not the internal machinations of party politics.

He is 71 and getting older. A lot of crazy things look more reasonable when you've had absolute power for a decade and aren't overly concerned about consequences in 20 years.

I think it's a mistake to give in to the temptation to jump to the conclusion that China is a tunnel-vision cult of personality everything-the-crazy-dictator-wants-he-gets government.

The Chinese government under Xi has a well-established track record of long-term planning that has done nothing but elevated China's status and leverage in the world.

It really couldn't be further from (e.g.) Putin's style of governance.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#104

Post by Cyclone_ » Thu, Oct 03, 2024, 10:30 PM UTC

I had never heard of it until now, but it looks similar to parts of the Marshall Islands in that there are very narrow strips of land.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#105

Post by mmooss » Thu, Oct 03, 2024, 10:34 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #100

mmooss wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, the US and UK value Diego Garcia because currently there aren't geographical alternatives for that base. Where else could they put it that would have the same benefits?

The lease expires in 2123. The militarily strategic landscape then is pretty much unknowable. To a 1925 (99 years ago ) military force, the Diego Garcia airfield would have had zero importance.

I wonder if they would have anticipated its value. I can anticipate a moon base would be valuable in 2123 even though it has little present value.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#106

Post by trompetenaccoun » Thu, Oct 03, 2024, 10:52 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #41

I imagine whoever got the 99 year lease is feeling pretty pleased about it - that's basically forever as far as they can tell. On the other hand, I bet the UK in 1997 would have hoped for a longer lease on Hong Kong.

Hong Kong island was ceded to the British in perpetuity. The 99 years lease of the New Territories (not Hong Kong, technically) was an additional unequal treaty that the Qing were forced into on top of it, after they also had to give up Kowloon. The British could have asked for 150 years too, who'd have stopped them?

Now the same happens to Britain in reverse. There is no benefit for any state to give up territory for nothing in return, why would they be "pretty pleased" about it? Also not only is Britain ceding its territory but they're actually paying rent to keep a base on what was previously their own land! It almost feels like China is involved in this because the number doesn't sound like something Mauritius would come up with on their own. See other 99 year leases the CCP is involved in, they're obsessed with this number:

https://ceylontoday.lk/2023/08/31/over-1200-acres-of-sri-lan...

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australia-says-no...

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/05/25/asia-pacific/ch...

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#107

Post by Barrin92 » Thu, Oct 03, 2024, 10:52 PM UTC

throwawaymaths wrote: post #53

rich_sasha wrote: post #41

I imagine whoever got the 99 year lease is feeling pretty pleased about it - that's basically forever as far as they can tell. On the other hand, I bet the UK in 1997 would have hoped for a longer lease on Hong Kong.

Probably not. In 1997 they were happy to court the $$ associated with opening up this huge new market of 1b+ "middle class" consumers. Id argue they still aren't sufficiently butthurt about it. The UK has sufficient grounds to reclaim HK since china has very much failed to uphold its agreement to keep hong kong democratic for at least 50 years. I guess that's why the CPC goes on gaslighting rants about "whole process…

>china has very much failed to uphold its agreement to keep hong kong democratic

That would be a curious failure indeed given that Hong Kong wasn't democratic under the British to begin with. It was a crown colony ruled by an appointed governor. The Brits of course never had any legitimate claim to an island they took after a war whose objective was to force opium into China. If they still have dreams of empire I'm sure China would be delighted to see them try though and see how it goes this time.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#108

Post by rndmio » Thu, Oct 03, 2024, 11:03 PM UTC

IncreasePosts wrote: post #98

avinash wrote: post #17

I'm a citizen of the Republic of Mauritius and, when this news was announced today, there was a general sense of relief. Mauritius has been fighting for its sovereignty over the Chagos Archipelago (with Diego Garcia being the largest island) for 56 years. Today, the Chagos Archipelago is part of Mauritius again and a treaty will (hopefully) soon be signed between the UK and Mauritius. From there, Mauritius will sign…

What exactly is the Mauritian connection to the Chagos Archipelago? Is it just because a lot of Chagossians went to Mauritius after getting kicked out? Obviously Mauritius and Chagos were ruled by the same people previous (French, then British), but is there a deeper history there? I ask this because the Chagos archipelago is like 1500 miles away from Mauritius - the Maldives, Seychelles, and even Sri Lanka and India…

There isn’t one, as you say it’s over 2000km between them, the only link is that when Britain was administrating them it did so as a single territory. This is not some reunification of a country separated by a colonial power.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#109

Post by thomascountz » Thu, Oct 03, 2024, 11:08 PM UTC

Mauritius was a sponsor to the Treaty of Pelindaba/African Nuclear-Weapon-Free Zone Treaty. The US's stockpile on Diego Garcia likely violates this.

Re: UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius

#110

Post by BobAliceInATree » Thu, Oct 03, 2024, 11:10 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #100

mmooss wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, the US and UK value Diego Garcia because currently there aren't geographical alternatives for that base. Where else could they put it that would have the same benefits?

The lease expires in 2123. The militarily strategic landscape then is pretty much unknowable. To a 1925 (99 years ago ) military force, the Diego Garcia airfield would have had zero importance.

in 99 years, most of the island probably will be underwater due to climate change.