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How to avoid a BSOD on your 2B dollar spacecraft

clarkwakeland.com

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Re: How to avoid a BSOD on your 2B dollar spacecraft

#101

Post by jdiez17 »

TrueDuality wrote: post #42
GlenTheMachine wrote: post #22

Thee are a bunch of comments here asking why one would run Windows on a spacecraft. I am a spacecraft engineer. I don’t see anything in the linked article indicating that they are actually running Windows - the BSOD claim is tongue-in-cheek, or at least that’s how I read it. I also don’t know of anyone anywhere that runs Windows on a spacecraft, with the exception of laptops used by astronauts. Typically one runs vxW…

Seconding the vxWorks and bare metal. Never seen Windows or Linux on a satellite bus. Haven't really touched payloads but I've seen some wonky things shipped to orbit by universities and not all them have been cubesat student projects.

Linux on a satellite bus is definitely up and coming. For example ESA's OPS-SAT ran the NanoSat MO Framework (https://nanosat-mo-framework.github.io/), written in Java and running on an ARM Linux OBC. It also makes a lot of sense for payload computers.

I'm working on a Linux distribution for space applications that addresses some of the pain points (application deployment, software update & memory-safe implementations of typical space protocols like CCSDS/PUS). If all goes to plan it will fly on a 1U CubeSat tech demonstrator this year, a cybersecurity research 1U CubeSat next year, and a 2U high performance satellite ... later. :)

Re: How to avoid a BSOD on your 2B dollar spacecraft

#102

Post by jdiez17 »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #80

Why is it using memory-mapped stuff in the first place rather than some sort of messaging system that would allow more defensive programming?

To the shock and horror of many programming-inclined people, it turns out that having "arbitrary memory read/write" commands on a remote computer that *must* keep the mission going is quite useful.

I can tell you a little first-hand account of where this helped a satellite formation flight mission I worked on. The communication system was working fine in terms of signal strength, but many command packets were ignored (no response). We were able to figure out that a message queue in the processing pipeline was considered full, by strategically reading certain memory locations. We then sent a memory patch to the satellite to skip some of the processing steps and this improved the communication system dramatically.

We also brought back to life the first CubeSat launched by my university, BEESAT-1, by using arbitrary memory write to patch some telemetry collection software to avoid a damaged section of the onboard flash. Pretty cool story actually.

Re: How to avoid a BSOD on your 2B dollar spacecraft

#103

Post by promoterr »

cliff wrote: post #97
bboygravity wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And apparently the astronaut !touchscreen! GUI is written in Javascript (not a joke).

I think I was the person who originally proposed to implement the crew control UI in a web browser, and I participated in a week-long retreat in beautiful Bend, Oregon where we implemented the first prototype. At the time, some very good flight software engineers had been working diligently on a new UI framework that was written in the same code style and process as the rest of our flight software. However, I noticed…

[dead]

Re: How to avoid a BSOD on your 2B dollar spacecraft

#104

Post by nicce »

mrpippy wrote: post #64
nicce wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every Starlink runs with Linux. The license list is a bit long: https://www.starlink.com/assets/pdfs/Starlink-Open-Source-Co...

That's likely software for the receiver/router/CPE that customers use, since it's being distributed they have to satisfy license obligations for it. Software actually running on satellites isn't being distributed, so there's no license obligations there (unless it's AGPL, ha!)

It includes that software too, but they have claimed that they use Linux, so I would assume that some software is from the satellite itsef as well. It is still not clear ”what” obligations you have for a piece in the space.

Re: How to avoid a BSOD on your 2B dollar spacecraft

#105

Post by rob74 »

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #22

Thee are a bunch of comments here asking why one would run Windows on a spacecraft. I am a spacecraft engineer. I don’t see anything in the linked article indicating that they are actually running Windows - the BSOD claim is tongue-in-cheek, or at least that’s how I read it. I also don’t know of anyone anywhere that runs Windows on a spacecraft, with the exception of laptops used by astronauts. Typically one runs vxW…

Well, it's a fair question, because the article jumps right into extremely detailed specifics like "Closed Loop Tests" that probably just people working in this domain are familiar with, without first making clear what exactly it's talking about. "The lifecycle of most spacecraft consists of a final phase" - as someone with only a cursory knowledge of spacecraft, at this point I assumed he would be talking about deorbiting?

Re: How to avoid a BSOD on your 2B dollar spacecraft

#106

Post by tobylane »

cliff wrote: post #97
bboygravity wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And apparently the astronaut !touchscreen! GUI is written in Javascript (not a joke).

I think I was the person who originally proposed to implement the crew control UI in a web browser, and I participated in a week-long retreat in beautiful Bend, Oregon where we implemented the first prototype. At the time, some very good flight software engineers had been working diligently on a new UI framework that was written in the same code style and process as the rest of our flight software. However, I noticed…

When would the Chrome version be frozen? Once you've completed the UI?

Re: How to avoid a BSOD on your 2B dollar spacecraft

#107

Post by [deleted] »

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #22

Thee are a bunch of comments here asking why one would run Windows on a spacecraft. I am a spacecraft engineer. I don’t see anything in the linked article indicating that they are actually running Windows - the BSOD claim is tongue-in-cheek, or at least that’s how I read it. I also don’t know of anyone anywhere that runs Windows on a spacecraft, with the exception of laptops used by astronauts. Typically one runs vxW…

[deleted]

Re: How to avoid a BSOD on your 2B dollar spacecraft

#108

Post by lofaszvanitt »

mrpippy wrote: post #64
nicce wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every Starlink runs with Linux. The license list is a bit long: https://www.starlink.com/assets/pdfs/Starlink-Open-Source-Co...

That's likely software for the receiver/router/CPE that customers use, since it's being distributed they have to satisfy license obligations for it. Software actually running on satellites isn't being distributed, so there's no license obligations there (unless it's AGPL, ha!)

Yeah, why would a satellite have angular...

Re: How to avoid a BSOD on your 2B dollar spacecraft

#109

Post by pjmlp »

freedomben wrote: post #82
dylan604 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if your account is only a Home Edition, you will not get the same support as if you upgrade to Universal Galactic Edition which has a LTS measured in generations.

Also, if you want RDP then I think you need to upgrade to Universal Galactic Edition

Only if the ground control station has more than two persons.

Re: How to avoid a BSOD on your 2B dollar spacecraft

#110

Post by pjmlp »

johnisgood wrote: post #45
exe34 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

windows is source-available if you have deep enough pockets: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sharedsource/enterprise-sour...

I have not heard of anyone building their own, custom Windows though, how common is it? I do not see Windows forks around either (I get it, it would not be legal).

What do you think some OEMs do with Windows on their custom deployment devices?

This happens less nowadays, because stuff like Android and ChromeOS, so why pay Microsoft when free beer OSes exist.

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