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Chinese archaeologists are striking out along the Silk Road

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101–110 of 113 posts

Re: Chinese archaeologists are striking out along the Silk Road

#101
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Roman Empire, at its time, meant nothing to those parts of the world, no influence, economic, cultural, or otherwise Rome, China and the North Indian kingdoms traded. > They had their own empires, and often far greater development and refinement This is as silly as claiming Rome was the centre of the world.

> Rome, China and the North Indian kingdoms traded Yes, well established. But in limited amounts, and without much knowledge in either side about the other, not much influence, cultural, social, economic, military, and such. Which is way Marco Polo's journey, which happened close to a full millenium later after the final centuries of the Roman Empire, is still a landmark of the civilizational meeting between Europe a…

> millenia before and after the Roman empire (until about the later modern era), China is considered by economists and historians to have been the top global economy

The list of largest cities tells the story succinctly [1]. Power went from the Levant and Egypt to China after the Bronze Age Collapse, returned to the Mediterranean with the rise of Rome, gradually traded away from Constantinople to China again through the first millennium CE (where it remained for much of the second millennium) before returning, suddenly and massively, to London following the Industrial Revolution.

There is no basis for claiming the various civilisations of the Mediterranean, ranging from the Hittites to the Egyptians and Greeks and Romans, both Western and Eastern, to say nothing of the Parthians, were less “developed” or ”refined” than China at their respective heights.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities_throu...

Re: Chinese archaeologists are striking out along the Silk Road

#102
post #45

Travellers from Asia journeyed to the Greco-Bactrian kingdom of Ghandara (whose name is a corruption of Alexandria) and took Buddhism back with them to the east. This is fictionalised in the story 'Journey to the West'. Nippon TV in Japan did a cool TV series adaption of this story that was dubbed into English and shown on kids TV in the UK as 'Monkey', which was quite popular back in the day. If you spend enough tim…

> whose name is a corruption of Alexandria No. Gandhara finds its name in way older documents such as Mahabharata. The people of Gandhara were called Gandharva. According to Mahabharata, these were people skilled in archery, wars, and also fine arts. I am not sure about the history, but I am sure the name doesn’t come from Alexandria.

How do we know that the Mahabharata wasn't changed some time after Big Al's "gap years to find himself"?

This sort of thing happened a lot with the Old Testament (despite being written down). I would be shocked if it didn't also happen with Mahabharata, which is famous for not having been written down (much).

Re: Chinese archaeologists are striking out along the Silk Road

#103
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be arguing against your first comment to this thread. Why take an account from an author of dubious qualifications and veracity seriously if the most significant evidence of such an encounter is entirely lacking?

> Why take an account from an author of dubious qualifications and veracity seriously Your reading comprehension is severely lacking. I mean the next step for the Chinese is to take such bullshit as true and start laying claim to the Americas. Clear now?

Why didn't you just write that? Your comments were excessively cryptic.

Re: Chinese archaeologists are striking out along the Silk Road

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hesitate to trust archaeologists because they have, far too often, ignored the culture and concerns of descendants while digging up their ancestors. Or more likely: because they have, far too often, proved the natives wrong and also shown that the people the natives called ancestors weren't... or, if they were, they were also the ancestors of those terrible people from the Evil Enemy Tribe that Nobody Likes. Native…

Their political history also included a lot of slavery.

Slavery was and is depressingly common -- and has very little to do with skin colour. Sad that so many "educated" Americans think otherwise :(

"Can we get enslave those guys over there? Is the cost/benefit analysis in our favour, at least for the short term? And there are no (incredibly strong!) social taboos against it? Then let's go ahead and do it!"

The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

Re: Chinese archaeologists are striking out along the Silk Road

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whose name is a corruption of Alexandria No. Gandhara finds its name in way older documents such as Mahabharata. The people of Gandhara were called Gandharva. According to Mahabharata, these were people skilled in archery, wars, and also fine arts. I am not sure about the history, but I am sure the name doesn’t come from Alexandria.

How do we know that the Mahabharata wasn't changed some time after Big Al's "gap years to find himself"? This sort of thing happened a lot with the Old Testament (despite being written down). I would be shocked if it didn't also happen with Mahabharata, which is famous for not having been written down (much).

There were (loosely) almost checksums for the oral transmission of the Sanskrit versions of the Mahabharata for ensuring consistency and accuracy.

Priests were highly trained in recitation and memorization and the oral texts were consistent across vast regions.

My source is vague memory but I think it was from JAB van Buitenen speaking about oral transmission and accuracy in the intros for either “The Bhagavadgita in the Mahabharata” or “The Mahabharata; Book of the Beginning”.

Re: Chinese archaeologists are striking out along the Silk Road

#106
post #56
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nippon TV in Japan did a cool TV series adaption of this story that was dubbed into English and shown on kids TV in the UK as 'Monkey', which was quite popular back in the day. Nah, HN readers might be more familiar with its anime adaptation, "Dragon Ball".

Interesting. I've not watched that show and didn't know it's the same story. I know the same graphic artist who worked on the design for the band Gorillaz also did idents based on this story for the Olympics in Beijing a few years back.

Toriyama exercised a fair bit of artist license in his work. I am reasonably sure the original texts were more about hitting opponents with a big magical stick rather than Kamehamehas.

Re: Chinese archaeologists are striking out along the Silk Road

#107
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>native American populations were annihilated by disease is now well established fact Conveniently formulated historic fact absolving settlers IMO. Apropo to topic. Convincing argument from indigenous is that indigenous in NA didn't get wiped out "because of" disease, worst historic pandemics wipe out like 50% of population over ~10 years before some sort of immunity kicks into population and gen pop rebuilds a few g…

Smallpox alone killed way more than 50%. I'm sorry but contact alone with people from Eurasia or Africa would have innevitably almost wiped out native american populations. I don't think this is even debatable.

And those populations would recover within few generations, like every other continental spanning peoples that's dealt with small pox since 1500BCE and before. No disease keeps populations across large span of geography at 10% pre outbreak over 100 years. It takes human intervention to force a specific people below replacement level for that long. When smallpox epidemics explodes, it wipes out 50%+ within a few YEARS. And then population RECOVERS, within a few generations. Populations develop some level of immunity OR social learned epidemiological responses to curtail outbreaks. Of course disease can kill, but it does not explain why indigenous population levels did not recover, especially on multi generational timelines. Not debating whether disease increases mortality, but saying disease is cause conveniently ignores the fact that persistent deprivation maintained by settlers over generations caused conditions where disease spread/has increased lethality, combined with repression prevented indigenous populations from recovering.

So yes, IMO it's completely debatable 90% of population would STILL be wiped out after 100 years in event of an earlier, pre Columbian exchange where new disease is introduced to the continent. Because unless those visitors stuck around and active took effort to genocide the locals, but using disease as a weapon AND creating conditions where disease can proliferate without response, local population would recover after multiple generations (european population took ~80 years to recover from black death).

Re: Chinese archaeologists are striking out along the Silk Road

#108
post #4

[flagged]

Nationalistic flamewar will get you banned here, regardless of which nation you have a problem with. Please don't post this sort of thing again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: your account has unfortunately been posting quite a few political/ideological battle-style comments. Examples:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41093814

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40976211

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40948947

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40168983

Can you please not do that? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. We have to ban accounts that keep doing it and I don't want to ban you, so if you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and using HN in the intended spirit, that would be good.

Re: Chinese archaeologists are striking out along the Silk Road

#109
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smallpox alone killed way more than 50%. I'm sorry but contact alone with people from Eurasia or Africa would have innevitably almost wiped out native american populations. I don't think this is even debatable.

And those populations would recover within few generations, like every other continental spanning peoples that's dealt with small pox since 1500BCE and before. No disease keeps populations across large span of geography at 10% pre outbreak over 100 years. It takes human intervention to force a specific people below replacement level for that long. When smallpox epidemics explodes, it wipes out 50%+ within a few YEARS…

The new population would have had immunity when the europeans arrived and they didn't.

You write way too much for too little information.

Re: Chinese archaeologists are striking out along the Silk Road

#110
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those populations would recover within few generations, like every other continental spanning peoples that's dealt with small pox since 1500BCE and before. No disease keeps populations across large span of geography at 10% pre outbreak over 100 years. It takes human intervention to force a specific people below replacement level for that long. When smallpox epidemics explodes, it wipes out 50%+ within a few YEARS…

The new population would have had immunity when the europeans arrived and they didn't. You write way too much for too little information.

Only if spread continental scale which implies prolonged exchange. Otherwise can be isolated to small cohort. You claim there would be 10% population in prior disease exchange. You claim it's not debatable. I use too much words demonstrate otherwise. You seem to agree. Useful information was exchanged.
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