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Hello Opera 12

my.opera.com

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Re: Hello Opera 12

#101

Post by wickedchicken »

Tomis02 wrote: post #28
rrreese wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to expand this? A quick look at the linked page shows a bunch of under the hood improvements that will appeal to web developers, but as a user I remain ignorant of why people use Opera. To be clear I used to use Opera back when they where the only browser with tabs, but that was close to a decade ago.

Not really. I've told countless people about how Opera really is the best browser, by far, and how people using Chrome and Firefox are stuck in the stone-age of Internet Explorer 6. I'm getting tired to repeat it. Screw it, I'll do a quick run. Depending on how good your computer is, Chrome will buckle (freeze your computer, in my case) sooner or later after you keep increasing the number of tabs, due to the one proc…

> And by the way, one last thing. The default option for Opera is to restore your tabs from your last browsing session, which was not the case for Chrome and Firefox last time I checked

Chrome's shortcut for 'reopen recently closed tab' is ctrl-shift-t. If you open a fresh browser window and do that, you get your tabs from the last session.

Re: Hello Opera 12

#102

Post by sim0n »

hoppipolla wrote: post #60
ishansharma wrote: post #46

Opera is still not getting some basic features right and that is costing them users. I remember asking for a feature in forums in days of Opera 11.00. The feature was something that every browser has: "Remembering contents of a text field." For example, when I enter my email address once in a website and then come back another day and write first letter of my email id, it is displayed in a dropdown. But Opera outrigh…

FWIW we have the "wand" feature which will fill in, and submit, a form for you with previously used values (it's the key icon on the toolbar or ctrl+enter). I know this is not quite the same implementation that other browsers have.

Your "wand" feature also adds a terrifically ugly yellow border to remembered inputs which developers have no way to prevent (like you can with WebKit by using outline: 0). I'm all for a constant UI to create a good UX but not when it can make a site look bad.

Re: Hello Opera 12

#103

Post by alanh »

rplnt wrote: post #26
alanh wrote: post #11

My connection sucks. Have they fixed this? http://jsfiddle.net/alanhogan/twCXt/

Not sure what you mean now? I'm still on older Opera (11.61) and the checkbox is resized.

But it does not look checked, right? One should be checked. Also, clicking it has no (visual) effect (though it will toggle the checked attribute in the DOM). It’s a truly terrible bug, and a strong argument that Opera should not use -webkit- properties like transform until it can actually handle them.

I reported it a couple months ago and have not received any follow-up at all.

Re: Hello Opera 12

#104

Post by UnFleshedOne »

kombine wrote: post #93
kevingadd wrote: post #83

From testing out my demos in Opera Next over the past few months, I've been really impressed with the quality of their JS runtime and the UI. Unfortunately, their hardware-accelerated canvas support doesn't really keep up and their WebGL is outright broken - it looks like they went so far as to disable both by default in 12, a disappointment to be sure - and they still have serious issues with HTML5 audio (to the poi…

This is just an indicator that we need a proper native development environment. Devs who embrace new web technologies like WebGL, or forget that those are just Javascript bindings to the technologies developed in C/C++. Can we please have native code instead, so developer controls the underlying system without having to rely on the wits of browser makers? Google Native Client is a step in the right direction.

What, wasn't the whole point of all web technologies to pile abstraction layers on top of abstraction layers so you never have to think about pointers ever again? :)

Native platforms and architectures were replaced by browser platforms, trading power and control for deployment headaches. And now you want to write for multiple browsers, multiple OSes and multiple architectures all at the same time while still battling heaps of restrictions any decent OS/antivirus would impose on binary blobs that can be run by a browser directly?

(disclaimer: I'm obviously biased towards native development :))

Re: Hello Opera 12

#105

Post by azakai »

kombine wrote: post #93
kevingadd wrote: post #83

From testing out my demos in Opera Next over the past few months, I've been really impressed with the quality of their JS runtime and the UI. Unfortunately, their hardware-accelerated canvas support doesn't really keep up and their WebGL is outright broken - it looks like they went so far as to disable both by default in 12, a disappointment to be sure - and they still have serious issues with HTML5 audio (to the poi…

This is just an indicator that we need a proper native development environment. Devs who embrace new web technologies like WebGL, or forget that those are just Javascript bindings to the technologies developed in C/C++. Can we please have native code instead, so developer controls the underlying system without having to rely on the wits of browser makers? Google Native Client is a step in the right direction.

> This is just an indicator that we need a proper native development environment. Devs who embrace new web technologies like WebGL, or forget that those are just Javascript bindings to the technologies developed in C/C++.

That is technically true, but what is the point? The bindings can make things better, or they can make things worse. WebGL, for example, covers over a lot of issues with OpenGL (security and convenience), making the web version very nice to use.

> Can we please have native code instead, so developer controls the underlying system without having to rely on the wits of browser makers? Google Native Client is a step in the right direction.

Native code is by definition non-portable.

NaCl in a partial attempt at portability adds bindings of its own to native APIs. Ask people developing for it, like any environment it has bugs and issues.

There is no simple solution here.

Re: Hello Opera 12

#106

Post by drhowarddrfine »

kevingadd wrote: post #83

From testing out my demos in Opera Next over the past few months, I've been really impressed with the quality of their JS runtime and the UI. Unfortunately, their hardware-accelerated canvas support doesn't really keep up and their WebGL is outright broken - it looks like they went so far as to disable both by default in 12, a disappointment to be sure - and they still have serious issues with HTML5 audio (to the poi…

Hm. I have no issues with playback for any of those browsers.

Re: Hello Opera 12

#107

Post by kprobst »

ilaksh wrote: post #20

Why don't they enable WebGL by default? I don't see why more people don't realize, WebGL is a prime Microsoft threat and the key to moving away from the MS Windows monopoly. That's why Microsoft has done so much work to try to scare people away from WebGL (by sponsoring 'security research' and creating FUD content on Wikipedia (seriously, look at the history of that article, the person who created the whole 'security…

Conspiracy theories aside, WebGL is more a threat to the Adobe Flash monopoly than anything else.

> you will see WebGL games starting to take down PC games sales

More like Angry Birds and whatnot... we're a long way from running something like Skyrim or Call of Duty on a browser.

Re: Hello Opera 12

#108

Post by luriel »

gouranga wrote: post #17
demetris wrote: post #13

Opera 12 is the first third-party web browser for Windows to offer an official 64-bit version. (Neither Firefox nor Chrome have official 64-bit versions for Windows. And I think Safari for Windows doesn’t have one either.) Does this translate to any substantial improvements in speed? Does anyone here know of any benchmarks?

There is an official 64-bit Firefox nightly built for Windows. I tried it and to be honest I can't tell the difference. Also bear in mind that it needs 64-bit Flash and Java plugins which are notoriously problematic.

Java and Flash are notoriously problematic (not to mention insecure) on 32-bits too.

Re: Hello Opera 12

#109

Post by alrondy »

sim0n wrote: post #102
hoppipolla wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW we have the "wand" feature which will fill in, and submit, a form for you with previously used values (it's the key icon on the toolbar or ctrl+enter). I know this is not quite the same implementation that other browsers have.

Your "wand" feature also adds a terrifically ugly yellow border to remembered inputs which developers have no way to prevent (like you can with WebKit by using outline: 0). I'm all for a constant UI to create a good UX but not when it can make a site look bad.

fortunately, my computer is my own and I don't need some stupid webgineer's permission to manage my interface.

Re: Hello Opera 12

#110

Post by jlarocco »

Tomis02 wrote: post #28
rrreese wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to expand this? A quick look at the linked page shows a bunch of under the hood improvements that will appeal to web developers, but as a user I remain ignorant of why people use Opera. To be clear I used to use Opera back when they where the only browser with tabs, but that was close to a decade ago.

Not really. I've told countless people about how Opera really is the best browser, by far, and how people using Chrome and Firefox are stuck in the stone-age of Internet Explorer 6. I'm getting tired to repeat it. Screw it, I'll do a quick run. Depending on how good your computer is, Chrome will buckle (freeze your computer, in my case) sooner or later after you keep increasing the number of tabs, due to the one proc…

I used Opera almost exclusively from version 5 up to around version 11. Now I switch between the Opera Next preview builds and Chromium nightly builds.

As a heavy user of both browsers, I can say for sure that all of the things you mention work as well or better in Chromium.

It's also funny to me that you tout Opera's customization ability, then deride the other browsers for having plugins. What's a plugin if not a convenient form of customization? It's even more funny because Chrome can be customized so much better than Opera. There's no Opera equivalent of Vimium, for example.

And "You're a hacker?" Well, Chromium is open source, it doesn't get more hacker friendly than that. Not that I care.

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