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Notes on Tajikistan

mattlakeman.org

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Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#101

Post by 0xdde »

protomolecule wrote: post #94
0xdde wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the post: > In 2014, Tajikistan was the most-remittance based economy on earth, amounting to almost half of its GDP. The countryside is dotted with half-finished concrete homes which I was told were the long-term retirement plans of Tajiks working abroad; they build their structures for a few months each year over many years or decades using trickles of funds earned from abroad. When the structures are finished,…

They are. "174,000 Tajiks became citizens of Russia in 2022, up from 104,000 the year before." [0] That's 1.5% of Tajikistan's population in a single year. We are not building walls, you know. [0] https://eurasianet.org/number-of-tajiks-seeking-to-get-russi...

Your link suggests this is largely to remove red tape while working in Russia. It does not answer how many are settling long-term. There is of course also this little complication:

> Anecdotal evidence suggests that recent recipients of that status have been prioritized for military mobilization as the Kremlin forges ahead with its offensives against Ukraine.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#102

Post by mkoubaa »

stef25 wrote: post #83
mkoubaa wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping religions in check as such is incompatible with liberalism. Secular societies need to be maintained, but antagonizing religious people with phrases like that is not how.

Make sure to use right words so they don't have a meltdown, like toddlers.

It is important for government actions to be communicated clearly

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#103

Post by surfingdino »

mkoubaa wrote: post #81
inglor_cz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not just a religion, but a legal and societal system. A very medieval one. Few people care if you believe that Muhammad rode to heaven on a magic horse (Buraq). But quite a lot of people care if you want to introduce hand amputations for theft, as demanded by Sharia Law, or different inheritance rules for sons and daughters where being female = being less valuable. The medieval-practical parts of Islam must def…

Islamic law is understood by Muslims to be applied only in an Islamic state. In a secular state, the consensus understanding by Muslims is that the secular law is to be followed. A secular state need not suppress Islam

Alas, religious people always want an exception to secular rule of law and in some countries in the West managed to carve out exceptions

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/applying-sharia-l...

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#104

Post by kkfx »

lye wrote: post #21
ssijak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yeah, "the West" lost a lot of goodwill in the region in the last couple of decades to be able to talk from such a high moral ground. I don't have any studies — they're probably impossible to run in an autocratic state — but in my country among people I've talked with through my life all major powers are viewed with roughly the same suspicion. It depends a lot on who you're talking to. If people are worried of possib…

The west in Central Asia want natural resources, like China, partially like Soviet Union, BUT Soviet Union back than have created most of the local infra, bad maybe, oppressing people maybe, but still modernize these countries. The west have financed Arkadag, Innopolis, ... meaning giving much to very few and nothing for the rest.

Back than, hearing my grandmother stories (she have a political activity in Europe that link her to the Soviet a bit), all was Soviet Citizens, of course the non-Caucasian looking was discriminated, the child of Russian there got better schools and services, the locals got far less, but they was still free to learn and move, the western experiment have given exactly NOTHING for 99% of the locals and have instead exacerbated local corruption...

That's why many might dream an European future, but definitively not like being under the IMF rules, they even prefer a historic enemy, China, since at least the Chinese nowadays build a bit of infra, just to pick natural resources or link themselves to EU, but still creating something that give some breadcrumbs to the locals.

The western and middle-east economical initiative have only displaced people. That's how we lost an opportunity...

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#105

Post by shakow »

ashilfarahmand wrote: post #32
justsomehnguy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ones that didn't manage to leave after the collapse of the Soviet Union > openly racist towards ethnic Tajiks Makes me wonder, maybe something happened between ethnic Tajiks and ethnic Russians between Soviet Union collapse and the present.

OP visited about 15 years ago so if you are hinting at the more recent event, it doesn't sound relevant. And if it is not that, I'm not sure what you are hinting at.

> I'm not sure what you are hinting at.

Probably the various ethnic cleansings that happened in the *stans at the fall of the USSR, where most more western ethnicities (Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians, Armenians, ...) were at best swiftly & firmly reconducted to the nearest airport, and at worst killed on the spot.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#106

Post by blackhawkC17 »

ssijak wrote: post #25
geoka9 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the most beautiful mountain scenery I've ever seen and very hospitable people. A very nice place to visit. Not a very good place to live though unless you're so rich that you don't have to rely on the local infrastructure and services for survival and quality of life.

I find life to also be bad if you are the only rich person isolated in a bubble when 99% of the people are in extreme poverty. You just can't feel good, unless you don't care.

Also makes you a target, living life constantly watching your back and being careful about any stranger you meet.

There’s a reason most rich people stick to developed countries.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#107

Post by protomolecule »

0xdde wrote: post #101
protomolecule wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are. "174,000 Tajiks became citizens of Russia in 2022, up from 104,000 the year before." [0] That's 1.5% of Tajikistan's population in a single year. We are not building walls, you know. [0] https://eurasianet.org/number-of-tajiks-seeking-to-get-russi...

Your link suggests this is largely to remove red tape while working in Russia. It does not answer how many are settling long-term. There is of course also this little complication: > Anecdotal evidence suggests that recent recipients of that status have been prioritized for military mobilization as the Kremlin forges ahead with its offensives against Ukraine.

The link suggests the opposite.

"While Tajik expatriates have some scant freedom of movement and residency privileges in Russia as compared to peers from most of the world outside the former Soviet Union, they have limited access to accommodation and credit, making settling long-term a complicated proposition.

Migrant laborers also face recurrent costs like payment for their work permits.

Holding Russian citizenship makes many problems go away."

"Anecdotal evidence"

Exactly.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#108

Post by wewtyflakes »

protomolecule wrote: post #75
wewtyflakes wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Tibet_by_the_Peo...

Your own link says that during the revolution of 1911 in China local theocracy seized power in Tibet and held to it for 40 years. "After the Xinhai Revolution in 1911, most of the area comprising the present-day Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) became a de facto independent polity, independent from the rest of the Republic of China" "At the time Political Tibet obtained de facto independence, its socio-economic and poli…

I am unsure how that is relevant. The other poster was trying to paint China as an entity that did not war with its neighbors, and that seems false. If you do not like the topic of Tibet, then how about Vietnam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War) or Korea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War)? I am not saying if these acts were good or bad, but they did exist.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#109

Post by surfingdino »

mkoubaa wrote: post #99
surfingdino wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, religions are incompatible with liberalism so there's constant tension.

The bedrock of liberalism is religious freedom

When a religion/ideology wants to limit personal freedom, it's a hard stop. Otherwise it's the end of liberalism.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#110

Post by protomolecule »

wewtyflakes wrote: post #108
protomolecule wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your own link says that during the revolution of 1911 in China local theocracy seized power in Tibet and held to it for 40 years. "After the Xinhai Revolution in 1911, most of the area comprising the present-day Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) became a de facto independent polity, independent from the rest of the Republic of China" "At the time Political Tibet obtained de facto independence, its socio-economic and poli…

I am unsure how that is relevant. The other poster was trying to paint China as an entity that did not war with its neighbors, and that seems false. If you do not like the topic of Tibet, then how about Vietnam ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War ) or Korea ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War )? I am not saying if these acts were good or bad, but they…

How it is not relevant?

Anyway, from your own link:

"The Sino-Vietnamese War was a brief conflict that occurred in early 1979 between China and Vietnam. China launched an offensive ostensibly in response to Vietnam's invasion and occupation of Cambodia in 1978, which ended the rule of the Chinese-backed Khmer Rouge. The conflict lasted for about a month, with China withdrawing its troops in March 1979."

In both other wars China helped their neighbors against Americans.

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