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I like the RP2040

dgroshev.com

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Re: I like the RP2040

#101

Post by the__alchemist »

fleventynine wrote: post #97
the__alchemist wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have - it does not avoid the structural and compatibility problems of Async in other contexts.

Can you go into more details? Most of the criticism I've read tends to be more abstract ("I don't like how ALL my blocking-style calls need to be async"), and doesn't propose an alternative mechanism to async that can provide a similar coding style in the same tight RAM footprint.

I think you'll find details regarding any discussion of async in rust and other languages - I don't mean to casually dismiss your question, but my objections are not unique.

The alternative mechanism is to use interrupts, DMA, multiple cores, distributed devices (eg a CAN network) a state machine, an RTOS, or, it sounds like in context of this thread, PIOs! You get the point. Do these provide a similar coding style? No, and that's the point. The coding style is the objection.

I find the "how else would you do it" style questions that come up frequently re Async rust (embedded or not) amusing. It's as if there is a new method of accomplishing a task, and asking a world that has been accomplishing this task for decades how it's possible to accomplish the task without the new thing!

Re: I like the RP2040

#102

Post by rdlw »

HyulianGrader wrote: post #12

nit: There are 6 different espressif microcontrollers in that table, not "dozens". Espressif also went many years with only the ESP8266, then many years more after introducing the ESP32 before this recent binge of releasing a new series every time they blink. ESP-IDF is really suffering for it, so I hope Raspberry avoid this fate or at least find a better way to support them all.

https://products.espressif.com/#/product-selector?language=e...

This is the official Espressif "ESP Product Selector". I checked everything in the ESP series, and limited to "Mass Production" status, and then it showed me a list of 175 products.

I'm sure some of those are doubled up, or just the same chip with different packaging options or whatever, but as a potential customer I'm still presented with 175 things and told to pick one.

Re: I like the RP2040

#103

Post by riskable »

amelius wrote: post #60
joezydeco wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on the fence about using it for a small commercial project I'm doing, but the lifetime has been put out long enough (2041 at this point), and it's so freaking cheap that I'm going to do a one-time buy of 10 years worth of parts. Lack of code security and onboard flash weren't dealbreakers for me here, but others will have more stringent requirements. QSPI is so incredibly cheap now.

Ok. One thing I'm worried about is that the tooling is made for hobbyists only. Is there a way to do everything from the commandline with FOSS tools and without installing e.g. the Arduino-IDE?

Since the RP2040 uses external flash you can pre-program the flash chips before they even get soldered on to the board. Other standard methods still work like breaking out the debug pins to some spot on your PCB so you can quickly "pogo flash" it as part of an assembly process.

Re: I like the RP2040

#104

Post by seba_dos1 »

timenova wrote: post #35
seba_dos1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be frank, I don't get its appeal at all. Most hobbyist uCs were already unbrickable, and using mass storage mode for flashing is rather cumbersome and clunky to automate as soon as you're past hello worlds.

Hence they made the Pico Debug Probe [0]. It makes it super easy to reflash firmware to the Pico in a quick iterative loop. However, the appeal of mounting as a mass storage device is not for iterative development (as you mentioned). Invariably something breaks, and the easiest way to get back on track is to reflash their default blank firmware using the mass storage interface. [0] https://www.raspberrypi.com/product…

I can use things like dfu-util or esptool for quick iterative loops without any additional hardware. Hence my point - mass storage is a downgrade over what other µCs on the market were already doing with their ROM bootloaders before RP2040.

Re: I like the RP2040

#105

Post by HyulianGrader »

sophacles wrote: post #98
HyulianGrader wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's safe to assume he's talking about the chip in both cases. You can connect either of them to a battery charger, camera, or nuclear reactor but all of those 'peripherals' are completely irrelevant to this comparison.

So is GP. The silicon chip itself for an ESP has: bluetooth, ethernet, wifi, SD/EMMC, and a bunch more "peripherals" built into it. The RP2040 does not. To make this painfully clear: For an esp32 to do wifi you wire the esp32 to an antenna. For an RP2040 to do wifi you wire the 2040 to another chip, and that other chip to an antenna. Do you see the difference?

No, that's both "just the chip", the chips have different peripherals. They both have the usual SPI, I2C, UART, ADC, etc., and they have their differences too.

I could just as well say "For an RP2040 to do USB you wire the RP2040 to the connector. For an ESP32 to do USB you wire the 32 to another chip, and that other chip to a connector."

It's clear to me GP has the impression that ESP32 is something more (a development board with an ESP32?) than the ESP32 "chip" itself.

Re: I like the RP2040

#106

Post by JohnFen »

The RP2040 is pretty cool. I've used them in a half dozen projects now.

> Raspberry Pi pulled a Henry Ford and boldly went with just one microcontroller.

However, this one size fits all thing doesn't work for me. I prefer to use the least microcontroller that will do the job I need done.

> There is no choice, no right sizing, but that might be OK! An RP2040 costs ~70 cents, and not all gizmos are produced by the million.

The reason I like to use the wimpiest microcontroller possible is not related to monetary cost. It's related to my power budget. Most of my projects are battery-powered, and having them use the least possible amount of juice is a huge advantage.

But even so, why use a $1 microcontroller when a 20 cent one will do the job equally well?

Re: I like the RP2040

#107

Post by floxy »

Havoc wrote: post #18

How are people using this in practice? I’ve never worked with a BGA device. I’m guessing you need to design a board send it to say pcbway and then have the equipment to solder the bga in?

You would probably be surprised what you can do with a $65 hot plate [0], no-refrigeration-required solder paste[1] and the matching laser-cut solder stencil[2].

[0] -- https://www.amazon.com/Soiiw-Microcomputer-Soldering-Preheat...

[1] -- https://www.chipquik.com/store/index.php?cPath=470&osCsid=8t...

[2] -- https://www.pololu.com/product/446/

Re: I like the RP2040

#108

Post by ajsnigrutin »

HyulianGrader wrote: post #12

nit: There are 6 different espressif microcontrollers in that table, not "dozens". Espressif also went many years with only the ESP8266, then many years more after introducing the ESP32 before this recent binge of releasing a new series every time they blink. ESP-IDF is really suffering for it, so I hope Raspberry avoid this fate or at least find a better way to support them all.

Many of the variants listed are the same chip but with different amounts of storage, oboard vs external (vs both) options, etc.

Re: I like the RP2040

#109

Post by seba_dos1 »

dgroshev wrote: post #55
seba_dos1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be frank, I don't get its appeal at all. Most hobbyist uCs were already unbrickable, and using mass storage mode for flashing is rather cumbersome and clunky to automate as soon as you're past hello worlds.

I completely agree that it's inconvenient as a developer tool, a debug probe is much, much nicer. I just think that despite all testing and care bugs are still possible, and the ROM bootloader is a backup that's always there. Plop a tiny switch on the PCB, and even if I screw up an OTA update customers will still be able to flash with no special tools (if the device has a USB port, that is). I also use it as a recove…

> I just think that despite all testing and care bugs are still possible, and the ROM bootloader is a backup that's always there.

That's orthogonal to mass storage mode. ROM bootloaders were standard in this class of microcontrollers for years, but they usually don't use UMS. One could argue that UMS is perhaps better than some custom incompatible solutions, but then that's what DFU is there for - a standard way to flash things over USB.

Re: I like the RP2040

#110

Post by dvdkon »

neilo40 wrote: post #28
Havoc wrote: post #18

How are people using this in practice? I’ve never worked with a BGA device. I’m guessing you need to design a board send it to say pcbway and then have the equipment to solder the bga in?

Although it looks like BGA, it actually uses a QFN package where all the contacts are accessible at the edge. With a little practice they are relatively easy to hand solder (I've done many, not just rp2040)

QFN packages are very nice to hand-solder in my experience, considering the pitch. Better than the bridge-prone pins of QFP. The bottom pads do need some preparation, but you don't need hot air or reflow.
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