I never understand these situations, it took me months to get a job offer and somehow incompetent people accidentally stumble into senior roles?
Because there are incompetent interviewers too out there, its just you haven’t encountered those yet.
Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?
101–110 of 231 posts
Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?
#102>I guess in most companies this would be a no-brainer, but we're a small outfit with a focus on personal development, intrinsic motivation, good climate, and low turnover. Do you think there is any way to rescue this situation? Or should we make this (perhaps justifiably, after their misleading self-presentation) the first time we let someone go for performance reasons? You have to fire. No hiring process is 100%. It…
No, there is no way to rescue the situation. If you make this sort of weak/poor management process where you tolerate incompetent employees standard, you will end up with a money hemorrhaging, adult daycare facility where all of the performing employees hate you and their job. If you aren't a monopoly, non-profit, or government organization, you'll also be bankrupt in short order.
Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?
#103It isn't impostor syndrome, they are literally an imposter. They committed fraud to get in the door, you didn't coerce them to get a much better paying job than they are qualified for. Now that they know they can't do the job, they are content to keep cashing paychecks and hope that your company is too hand wringing and soft to call them out.
To your face they are worried and "what will we do, oh no what a mistake we all made", behind your back they think you are suckers (and based on your post they are probably correct).
Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?
#104I really appreciate that you want to salvage the situation.
I've been at the opposite end of the spectrum at companies where the CTO wants a perfect team, and fired employees that weren't perfect or made (what we considered) reconcilable mistakes. We were all stressed out that we would be next on the chopping block.
Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?
#105This is a good case study and how different the US versus European climate for scenarios like this is
How does Europe handle it?
In many places, there is a trial period of 3 months and then usually you do a one year contract. So you have at least two decision points.
Second thing is: most of our countries have a more direct conversation style.
Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?
#106We hired a guy like that. Clear deficiency in hiring process. I wasn't in management, but letting the mistake fester won't make it better. Additionally, if someone is that "senior" and good at interviewing, but not at thier job, it's unlikely they will come up to speed at a reasoble rate. Thier primary skill is interviewing, they might not be able to learn the skills they need to succeed. Let him go!
I'm wondering if it's possible, given the current job market climate, to spend way too long trying to get a job, in multiple rounds of interviews, and basically pigeonhole oneself into passing the interview but losing other skills that are pertinent to performing and keeping the job. The stories I keep hearing, about companies ghosting the applicant after 5-6 exhausting rounds of interviews, are scaring me, to be fra…
IMO, you don't lose a good engineering mindset or skills within a year or few months. Rusty, sure, but I'd say those skills quickly start to sharpen after working at a new job for a couple months.
Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?
#107[dead]
Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?
#108We had one of these. Excellent interview, couldn't even handle explorer.exe on the other side. We fired them within the week. No one felt bad about it. Just do it and move on. The longer you drag it out, the worse it will get.
Yes. The training effort shouldn’t be spent on the new hire, it should be spent on improving the hiring process.
[dead]
Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?
#109(Not an expert manager; just some thoughts based on things I've seen.)
I can't tell from the description whether the candidate was outright deceptive, like claiming experience they didn't have, or candidate was just good at the normal interviewing rituals, and the real problem was mess-up on company's end (i.e., interviewers said "mediocre" but HR somehow heard "hire at all costs").
In any case, talk with appropriate management and HR -- with everyone clear on what the cause of the hiring mistake was -- and figure out what the acceptable options are.
Then, if the candidate seemed to be dealing in good faith, then probably talk with the employee, candidly, about the problem, and what options you're presenting.
If they're leaving, you can assist to do it in a gentle way. You might not have to assist much; they might hear it's not working out, and start job-hunting urgently.
If they're staying but downleveled, you can probably figure out the details to do it in a sufficiently non-awkward, discreet way. If employees noticed a bad-performer, they might be relieved to see that corrected, but hopefully they can also see the sympathetic and constructive way it was done, and adopt that tone themselves.
But, if the candidate wasn't in good faith, then they helped make this an adversarial situation, so talk with HR, and maybe also legal counsel, about how to terminate promptly and with a minimum of drama.
Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?
#110Get that interview process fixed ASAP and let this lemon go. Don’t be surprised if there is pushback from non-technicals if this hire checked a bunch of boxes for other departments. A good strategy would be to have them be a lead on a minor project that requires technical chops and communication. Ensure there is a daily standup and grind them on details and timelines. Get them some juniors as direct reports to expose…
> A good strategy would be to have them be a lead on a minor project that
> requires technical chops and communication. Ensure there is a daily standup
> and grind them on details and timelines. Get them some juniors as direct
> reports to expose their lack of knowledge, then have meetings with these
> junior devs about project performance.
Do not do this. You do not need a “strategy”. Just do it! Rip off the band-aid. Either tell them the truth or give no reason even if asked. Reverse the mistake asap and get moving on your company’s mission. You don’t need one second more of this. Nor does anyone else at your organization. Do it today! Do it dispassionately. Do it as nicely as possible. You are going to feel bad because you are a good empathetic human.
Some people will have a reaction. Some people will “have a reaction” to try to get more out of you. You are not responsible for either. You are responsible only for your own actions. Figure out what you should give them to be fair and add a little extra so you are sure it isn’t unfair.
Plan what you will say and do in advance and have someone you trust with you in the meeting. Stick to your plan. Even the best hiring processes succeed only 50% of the time (though this goes beyond just a bad hire). Firing, and firing quickly is just as important as hiring well.
Also remember that if an applicant tailors to a hiring process to this extent, that’s not just a failure of the process. It’s dishonesty. Even if the applicant were competent, you absolutely don’t want to entertain someone dishonest in your company.