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I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

awesomekling.substack.com

101–110 of 280 posts

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#101
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FreeBSD once peaked at a 0.01% desktop market share. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide...

So? You should still develop for. Why? For this whole reason. What does it matter? You should target all audiences. Why not?

Why BSD and not Haiku?

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#102
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree (apart from the popular hate on Firefox). Ladybird is promising and has a much bigger chance to make an impact than SerenityOS. But it's a bit disappointing to see that it's still pretty much a one-man project. Especially to have a chance to get close to the performance of Chrome and Firefox, it will need a large investment. The amount of engineering resources poured into just making JavaScript fast is mind-n…

On recent hardware, how much "performance" do we really need? Wouldn't almost any compliant browser be basically good enough?

LadyBird author posted a couple of days ago a demo of twitter and he himself admitted that it's painfully slow.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree (apart from the popular hate on Firefox). Ladybird is promising and has a much bigger chance to make an impact than SerenityOS. But it's a bit disappointing to see that it's still pretty much a one-man project. Especially to have a chance to get close to the performance of Chrome and Firefox, it will need a large investment. The amount of engineering resources poured into just making JavaScript fast is mind-n…

> But it's a bit disappointing to see that it's still pretty much a one-man project. I don't know much about this project and I have never used it. But in my experience as a developer and user of software I couldn't disagree more. The longer something can stay a one-person project, the better! Nothing kills creativity, innovation, and velocity faster than having to make every decision by committee. Big communities ar…

> The longer something can stay a one-person project, the better! Nothing kills creativity, innovation, and velocity faster than having to make every decision by committee.

One person can get surprisingly far, but there's a limit beyond which no single human will scale. Getting to the v8 performance is IMHO such an example. You might be OK with a browser which has a noticeably subpar performance, but it will likely stifle mainstream adoption (which again, might be OK for you and that's fine).

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#104
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree (apart from the popular hate on Firefox). Ladybird is promising and has a much bigger chance to make an impact than SerenityOS. But it's a bit disappointing to see that it's still pretty much a one-man project. Especially to have a chance to get close to the performance of Chrome and Firefox, it will need a large investment. The amount of engineering resources poured into just making JavaScript fast is mind-n…

On recent hardware, how much "performance" do we really need? Wouldn't almost any compliant browser be basically good enough?

As someone developing web games, my answer is no.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#105

Oh, this is interesting. As a GitHub sponsor of Andreas for a while now, what does that mean for sponsors? Are we funding exclusively work on LadyBird? (Had we been, for some time already?) Does the SerenityOS project have a GitHub sponsor? I personally had grown more interested in the browser anyway, so I'll just keep sponsoring Andreas, I suppose, unless this all is a prelude to VC investment or a big company acqui…

Thank you so much for sponsoring me! :) As I wrote in the announcement, I've already been working primarily on Ladybird for ~2 years already, so you have indeed been sponsoring Ladybird development by sponsoring me. SerenityOS doesn't have a GitHub Sponsors itself, but it does use Polar to allow anyone to directly sponsor work on specific issues. See https://polar.sh/SerenityOS And don't worry, there won't be some VC…

> And don't worry, there won't be some VC investment or big company buyout.

I fell for that trick 27 times already, you can't fool me! j/k

Thanks for the ride, wish you the best of luck.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#106

I might sound jaded, but I'd be more excited for a Chromium fork that focuses on hackability instead of a brand new browser that'll take somewhere between years to ∞ to be even remotely useful. I get why that'd be less fun to work on though.

Qutebrowser, Nyxt even better for hackability.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#107

> Ladybird now targets Linux and macOS. The SerenityOS target is dropped. Why dropping the SerenityOS target?? Does this mean that SerenityOS's Ladybird will need to continually pull patches from the new Ladybird project in order to keep development? Also: is it really a fork if the new project gets to keep the name "Ladybird"? Will SerenityOS's browser need to be renamed, or there will be two diverging Ladybird proj…

because the main focus on serenityos is writing code. hence no 3rd party code policy. the fork is mostly to make the browser use 3rd party code, hence it is now no better than just porting Mozilla. i think this will fork both forever

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#108
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FreeBSD once peaked at a 0.01% desktop market share. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide...

So? You should still develop for. Why? For this whole reason. What does it matter? You should target all audiences. Why not?

> Why not?

Because it's extra work.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#109

I fully respect these reasons, they are logical and well said. But hopefully interest in SerenityOS doesn't taper off due to this. Kling was great at garnering interest with his YouTube videos where he'd go deep into bug fixing and feature development. Certainly, the browser has the most potential and even immediate necessity for the sake of the open Web, but I would still like to daily drive SerenityOS some day. Its…

Linux (kernel I mean) is good enough. There were some scheduling problems with audio, but it's mostly resolved. The problem is GNU style. We need another GUI and that doesn't mean just replacing X with/or Wayland protocol. It means replacing GTK and QT too.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#110

> Ladybird now targets Linux and macOS. The SerenityOS target is dropped. Why dropping the SerenityOS target?? Does this mean that SerenityOS's Ladybird will need to continually pull patches from the new Ladybird project in order to keep development? Also: is it really a fork if the new project gets to keep the name "Ladybird"? Will SerenityOS's browser need to be renamed, or there will be two diverging Ladybird proj…

As mentioned by Andreas, it's because SerenityOS does not depend on third party libraries and part of the new ethos of Ladybird is to decrease "not invented here" syndrome.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40561408

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