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Loss of nearly a full decade of information from early days of Chinese internet

chinamediaproject.org

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Re: Loss of nearly a full decade of information from early days of Chinese internet

#101
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep; there may be a lack of incentive to preserve old sites, but what's worse are the ranking algorithms that prevent their discoverability in the first place.

Both the Internet Archive and Common Crawl have tools that reveal actual crawl dates. Search engines are not really intended to be archives, so it's no surprise that they aren't very good archives.

Is it, though? I think you have to define what your search engine is searching to make a claim like that. Internet Archive and Common Crawl (which I will say has its own incentives discouraging the discoverability of old sites through its methodology and limitations of its web crawling) are search engines in their own right.

What are you doing when you use their services? Searching.

Re: Loss of nearly a full decade of information from early days of Chinese internet

#102
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> supposed near-infinite databases: a lot of it is just gone Pretty sure megacorps still have their near-infinite databases around, in walled garden as always, but that's another topic. Censored contents are almost certainly soft-deleted. The problem is more about independent-ish sites, for example Tianya [1]. Think ancient BBS. Or newsgroups. If nearly all archive of these are lost it would indeed be very sad. [1] h…

> Pretty sure megacorps still have their near-infinite databases around Not necessarily. It's quite possible that, if no one accesses them, they got moved to backups with only one copy, and the backups may not actually be restorable in the case of disaster (it happens somewhat frequently even for backups of data you might actually care about, so imagine the effects of neglect on that).

There's also serious coordination problems internally. How easy is it to get access? Did you make buddies with the little emperors in charge of the historical archives? Is the archive in your company large enough? Are the chances of getting access to another competing company's dataset high enough to not require multiple decimal digits to express?

(This I think is part of why Chinese human genomics has been such a disappointment: yes, there's collectively a lot of data, but there ain't nothing like UKBB pulling it all together. Just thousands of fiefdoms.)

Re: Loss of nearly a full decade of information from early days of Chinese internet

#104
Also, the Chinese Internet is "self-segregating".

You know how it is with the Great Fire Wall: you can't visit some outside websites from inside. Wikipedia was blocked completely in 2019.

There's actually another direction: you can't visit some inside websites from outside:

Most Chinese apps/websites are required by law to be tied to person identities. That means they have to be registered by phone number. In China, one person = one phone number. Without Chinese phone numbers, most Chinese apps/websites simply refuse to even let you use it.

There is no way to get a phone number without physically going to a Chinese phone-card bureau and present your ID card.

Indeed, it is getting difficult for foreigners nowadays to visit China. Without a phone number they can't do anything with Chinese apps, but they need that. Getting a phone number requires presenting a passport and a valid visa.

Foreign map apps are usually broken in China.

Foreigners who are not physically located within China are just trouble, from the Chinese point of view. Not only do they not want Chinese people to use foreign apps, they also don't want foreign people to use Chinese apps.

A few months ago I tried registering a QQ account. The "International" version is no longer maintained. When I tried nevertheless the last known good version, it just threw an error. The "domestic" version does not work when the phone is not physically located within China, and requires a Chinese phone number anyway.

About 2 weeks ago I noticed that Zhihu also stopped allowing you to expand long answers without an account. And of course, to register an account, you need a damned phone number. At least it allows American phone numbers.

Philosophically, I think it is the resurgence of the Chinese security mindset: Forbid all inside-outside contact by default. We have everything we need at home anyway.

Our dynasty’s majestic virtue has penetrated unto every country under Heaven, and Kings of all nations have offered their costly tribute by land and sea. As your Ambassador can see for himself, we possess all things. I set no value on objects strange or ingenious, and have no use for your country’s manufactures. --- Emperor Qian Long's Letter to King George III, 1793

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