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Intel's anti-upgrade tricks defeated with Kapton tape

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Re: Intel's anti-upgrade tricks defeated with Kapton tape

#101
post #66
post #35

What is the financial benefit to Intel in artificially limiting its CPU sockets like this? Logic and reason would have me believe they'd want to sell as many CPUs as possible, and keeping the socket compatible for as long as possible would seem logical. My thoughts on reasons they might have done this. I honestly have no idea, these are just uninformed guesses. - The Charitable Answer: There actually is some sort of…

Intel actually intended for LGA1151 to remain unchanged for Coffee Lake but found out late in the testing process that many existing motherboards did not have enough power delivery capability to support the planned 6 and 8 core parts. Hence the decision to lock them out in software only. They are probably aware of the bad optics but decided that it’s better than trying to deal with the RMAs later. It’s very similar t…

> LGA1155: Major change to integrated GPU, also fixed the weird pin assignment of LGA1156 which made board layout a major pain.

Of course, the P67 chipset was trivially electrically compatible with LGA1156 CPUs; Asrock's P67 Transformer motherboard proved that conclusively.

That said, the main problem with 1155 was their locking down the clock dividers, so the BCLK overclocking you could do with 1156 platforms was completely removed (even though every chip in the Sandy Bridge lineup could do 4.4GHz without any problem). This was the beginning of the "we're intentionally limiting our processor performance due to zero competition" days.

> LGA1150: Introduction of on-die voltage regulation (FIVR)

Which they would proceed to remove from the die in later generations, if I recall correctly. (And yes, Haswell was a generation with ~0% IPC uplift so no big loss there, but still.)

Re: Intel's anti-upgrade tricks defeated with Kapton tape

#102
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel actually intended for LGA1151 to remain unchanged for Coffee Lake but found out late in the testing process that many existing motherboards did not have enough power delivery capability to support the planned 6 and 8 core parts. Hence the decision to lock them out in software only. They are probably aware of the bad optics but decided that it’s better than trying to deal with the RMAs later. It’s very similar t…

Why does a socket that can support DDR3 or DDR4 need to be different from a socket that only supports DDR3? And with the current socket being 1700, they're going to change it again for the next generation to 1851, and with a quick look I don't see any feature changes that are motivating the change. (Upgrading 4 of the PCIe lanes to match the speed of the other 16 definitely does not count as something that motivates…

Because DDR4 is electrically different and memory controllers are all on-die.

Intel could get away with doing that pre-Nehalem because the memory was connected via the northbridge and not directly (which is what AMD was doing at the time; their CPUs outperformed Intel's partially due to that), so the CPU could be memory-agnostic.

AMD would later need to switch to a new socket to run DDR3 RAM, but that socket was physically compatible with AM2 (AM3 CPUs would have both DDR2 and DDR3 memory controllers and switch depending on which memory they were paired with; AM3+ CPUs would do away with that though).

There were some benefits to doing that; the last time Intel realized them was in 2001 when RD-RAM turned out to be a dead-end. Socket 423 processors would ultimately prove compatible with RDRAM, SDRAM, and DDR SDRAM.

Re: Intel's anti-upgrade tricks defeated with Kapton tape

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if i can buy a new CPU for my motherboard i would be almost guaranteed to stay with Intel. Now ever upgrade is a chance to jump ship to the competition. There are probably people on their 3rd AM4 CPU with the same motherboard.

Intel only doing one upgrade per compatible mobo is kind of annoying. I had to buy and return a 6000 series CPU just to update my board's firmware so I could use the 7700k I intended to. How's the compatibility on the AMD side? Will a board work enough to upgrade itself with a newer CPU than it launched with?

Last time it was a major problem, AMD had a program to send you a low end old generation processor and you'd send it back when you were done. CPUless flashing is pretty common now though, and inventory is low, so there's less stale bios motherboards out there.

Re: Intel's anti-upgrade tricks defeated with Kapton tape

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same goes for most cars. No real revolution, tweaks or changes due to regulatory demands, but nothing groundbreaking.

Still, when you’re due for a new car and look for the newest of the newest, would you go with manufacturer A, who released their latest car 8 years ago, or manufacturer B, who released it 1 year ago? Incremental upgrades get so much hate around the internet (mostly about phones) by people having the version before it. Saying things like “ah they changed almost nothing! Why would I upgrade?!” While for instance me, on…

For sure A. I would never buy a car that is the first model year of a revamp. I would give them at least a year to work out the bugs.

Re: Intel's anti-upgrade tricks defeated with Kapton tape

#106
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does a socket that can support DDR3 or DDR4 need to be different from a socket that only supports DDR3? And with the current socket being 1700, they're going to change it again for the next generation to 1851, and with a quick look I don't see any feature changes that are motivating the change. (Upgrading 4 of the PCIe lanes to match the speed of the other 16 definitely does not count as something that motivates…

Because DDR4 is electrically different and memory controllers are all on-die. Intel could get away with doing that pre-Nehalem because the memory was connected via the northbridge and not directly (which is what AMD was doing at the time; their CPUs outperformed Intel's partially due to that), so the CPU could be memory-agnostic. AMD would later need to switch to a new socket to run DDR3 RAM, but that socket was phys…

> Because DDR4 is electrically different and memory controllers are all on-die.

Them being on-die is exactly why you don't need a socket change to take full advantage of DDR4, since they directly showed a socket can support both at once. Unless you're particularly worried about people trying to buy a new motherboard for their existing CPU, but who does that? You can tell them no without blocking CPU upgrades for everyone else.

> pre-Nehalem

> AM3 CPUs would have both DDR2 and DDR3 memory controllers

LGA1151 supported both DDR3 and DDR4.

Re: Intel's anti-upgrade tricks defeated with Kapton tape

#107
post #85

Anti-upgrade is disgusting. Upgradeability is a major reason to buy an tower PC. I would love to pay any remotely-reasonable amount of money for a motherboard which would let me just swap CPUs and cards for 15 years. This is what good motherboards were in the good old pre-PCIe days. It was so lovely to buy the best MB + cheapest everything else, then upgrade whatever as you need and can afford it. I've read Intel eve…

One reason I chose to buy the lowest-end Threadripper instead of the highest end Ryzen. In the future, even if there's never any compatibility with socket sTR5, the parts in the same generation provide a part-by-part upgrade path up to 96 cores, 1TB of RAM (or was it 2TB? I forget), and 128 PCIe lanes.

I would prefer 4 really powerful cores to 96 weaker cores in a CPU though.

Re: Intel's anti-upgrade tricks defeated with Kapton tape

#108
post #81
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 years of the same parts, repair knowledge, and continued software support? Sign me up immediately.

> continued software support Unfortunately due to the extremely minimal software rights that exist (see: proprietary software) this is pretty much nonexistent in cars AFAIK. I would rather get a car that is old enough to not be limited by software constraints. Which is pretty disappointing, because I actually really like electric cars. I think they would work well for my needs. But they are all so intentionally kneec…

I would love a super bare bones electric car. One that functions the same as any late 90s/early 2000s era car would, except with an electric power train and maybe cruise control.

Re: Intel's anti-upgrade tricks defeated with Kapton tape

#109
post #35

What is the financial benefit to Intel in artificially limiting its CPU sockets like this? Logic and reason would have me believe they'd want to sell as many CPUs as possible, and keeping the socket compatible for as long as possible would seem logical. My thoughts on reasons they might have done this. I honestly have no idea, these are just uninformed guesses. - The Charitable Answer: There actually is some sort of…

It costs money to validate a new processor on an old motherboard, and no corp wants to waste money on a product they have already sold.

[deleted]

Re: Intel's anti-upgrade tricks defeated with Kapton tape

#110
post #35

What is the financial benefit to Intel in artificially limiting its CPU sockets like this? Logic and reason would have me believe they'd want to sell as many CPUs as possible, and keeping the socket compatible for as long as possible would seem logical. My thoughts on reasons they might have done this. I honestly have no idea, these are just uninformed guesses. - The Charitable Answer: There actually is some sort of…

Intel sells the chipset that goes along with the processor, as well as selling their own motherboards. I think the profit incentive here is obvious. Why sell just a CPU when you can sell a CPU and a chipset and a motherboard?

Intel stopped selling motherboards in 2013.
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