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Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

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101–110 of 187 posts

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still need deep pockets but it’s now increasingly easier to be much better at search than Google. That's the big problem here. All the new search engines rely on the infrastructure of the old ones. It would take very little collusion between Google and Microsoft to crush something like Kagi. And the moment any new competitor gets big, they'll do it. What's needed is an anti-trust breakup. There's simply too big a c…

Agree, intervention is needed. Any new entrant sort-of has to prove itself also as crawling sites can be hard, e.g. Cloudflare which fronts an appreciable portion of the web. Also large sites like Reddit you need to crawl them at 100s of pages a second to keep up to date with content, not something they're generally going to appreciate without a recognisable benefit to them.

> Any new entrant sort-of has to prove itself also as crawling sites can be hard

It's very hard, getting harder as websites grow more hostile to crawlers. (With more and more putting up login walls to keep poorly written AI crawlers out.)

But the real problem is that tech is culturally unused to dealing with monopolists "on even ground". The wider tech community operates on the implied worldview that they can take on anyone by just asking daddy A16Z for a duovigintillion dollars. For 25 nearly-continuous years, you could just outspend to get into even the most hostile markets.

That economic climate is just ... gone now. No more free money. You can't just buy your way to the top anymore, the business has to financially work.

And most importantly: You can't outspend the incumbents anymore, but they still can outspend you.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#102
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the point in using DDG. Brave Search is a superior replacement.

I try to live my values, so I can't use it. It's a rare case where I really do have a choice.

If you value paying money for a good product I’d say kagi is the answer. It is definitely worth its cost if you can afford it.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#103

I searched for how to use a massage ball (my back hurts) last week and got a giant page full of ads and ad-like sections for buying one with barely any articles at all. That is not a search engine; it's an ads engine.

I just tried "how to use a massage ball" and I don't see any ads, and links seem to be all legit articles, with YouTube video tutorials at the top.

Google results are tailored on a number of factors such as location, your past searches and whatnot.

The same deal with the ads. Advertiser wouldn't pay for advertising of their product in a region or to a demograph they don't care for.

I'd be more surprised if you did get the same result as parent.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#104
post #95
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also can't fetch more than 2 pages of results for either web or image search. Reverse image search just straight up doesn't work. I don't know why they have it. With searxng, searching at least works. It also has plugins that I think can do some of what Kagi is useful for (but it depends on the instance)

I came here to suggest Kagi. I bloody love it. No ads, ability to remove or downgrade or promote particular sites, lenses, I love it all. Your comment - honestly, hand on heart, I can’t remember the last time I paged through beyond the first page of any search engine. I didn’t even know Kagi had this “problem” and so I guess I just don’t see it as a problem. But then I realised I’m absolutely in that bit of “must be…

One thing that bothers me about Kagi: I have a large landscape-oriented screen. Why does Kagi only use the left part of it, and leave the rest blank?

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#105
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to live my values, so I can't use it. It's a rare case where I really do have a choice.

If you value paying money for a good product I’d say kagi is the answer. It is definitely worth its cost if you can afford it.

[deleted]

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#106
post #7

Who’s gaining traffic right now? Is it just Reddit and a few others that has caught the traffic from this implosion or is the volumes of searches shrinking due to perhaps AI?

See the bar chart in the article, third image (don't know if hotlinking works): https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/1024xn/p0j04fnt.jpg.webp

Probably besides the ones gaining more traftic, you're probably right the overall click-through rate will be vastly lower than it was before quote answers appeared, and now probably ever lower with the generated text answers

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#107
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would they crush kagi

Kagi relies on data from the search engine giants. Without that data, it's dead in the water. That's the dumbest part of it all; Kagi's not an entirely new search engine. It's Google's index but without the ad-tech juicing, and some clever use of a few other search indices to specialize results. (I.e. Google could unshit itself at any moment , it just doesn't want to.)

Hmm... really? They don't do their own crawling and indexing? How does one simply repurpose google's index... just technically or business speaking?

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#108
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least Google (or any search engine for that matter) should consider implementing a feature that allows users to explicitly signal query intent. For instance, a 'noshop:' prefix could be used to signal that the user is not looking to buy anything. There are two distinct groups of users searching for terms like "massage ball" or (in my own case) "managed switch": those looking to buy the product and those w…

Which Google user would want to pay for ads about things you cant buy ('noshop')? Oh wait, you meant Google _product_. You want Google to cater to its product needs by sacrificing own money making potential and limiting its actual users.

Google already tries to infer whether a user is shopping or seeking information and serve results accordingly. If I search for "managed vs unmanaged switch" or "massage ball usage", I do not see any ads.

All I'm saying is that Google should consider allowing users to explicitly state their intent, since some queries ("massage ball" and "managed switch") are ambiguous and so the intent cannot always be reliably inferred. Analogy: while type inference works well in many cases, there are situations where explicit typing is required because the type is ambiguous based on usage alone.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#109
post #62
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also can't fetch more than 2 pages of results for either web or image search. Reverse image search just straight up doesn't work. I don't know why they have it. With searxng, searching at least works. It also has plugins that I think can do some of what Kagi is useful for (but it depends on the instance)

> It also can't fetch more than 2 pages of results for either web or image search I can't speak for image searching, but I found when I get limited results from Kagi, The other search engines that produce More results just pad those results with noise. Sometimes I'll do a specific search and have no results on Kagi, so I switched to another engine justified I have thousands of unrelated results

> The other search engines that produce More results just pad those results with noise.

Yeah, that's been an increasing problem.. Google has been especially bad with this for a while now.

When I tried to search for something where I wasn't sure exactly what I was looking for, I could only change my query so many times until it stopped being what I wanted.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#110
post #46

Two big reasons people add Reddit to search phrases is because Reddit's search isn't functional and to deprioritise Ad Junk from search. It's to fix broken search, which gets more broken - more unwanted Ad Junk. But Google's an advertising company with it's ad search device in everyone's pocket. At least it's reached sufficient post-don't-be-evil to be honestly shameless, even if it does employ people in PR with brok…

Reddit is the only social network I use. They're really dropping the ball by not having a fantastic search tool. I know search is a difficult problem, but with the kind of budget and engineering power they have it has to be solvable.

I've been switching to Lemmy.

It's like Reddit but not owned by a public corp.

Reddit still has more users but Lemmy is more like old school distributed web, not just an ad product pushed by coked out MBA accountants.

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