Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

thestack.technology

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 191 posts

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#101

Post by cdchn »

hamandcheese wrote: post #100
JohnMakin wrote: post #85

been using terraform heavily for 5 years and have hacked together modules and custom providers for various ad-hoc things. One of the things that has always really frustrated me about terraform is that it seems to go out of its way to make you do things in a very annoying, inconsistent way. Part of this is necessary due to the nature of the provider ecosystem, you can't guarantee consistency across providers - and I w…

What really grinds my gears is how hard it is to refactor terraform code. Put something in a module, but want to move it elsewhere? Get ready for pain. I've been using terranix, which uses nix to generate a tf.json file, and oh my god is the experience night and day. I can make functions! I can refactor! And if it's a pure refactor, there is nothing to apply.

How does terranix help you with the "move a resource from a module to somewhere else" problem?

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#102

Post by nprateem »

JohnMakin wrote: post #85

been using terraform heavily for 5 years and have hacked together modules and custom providers for various ad-hoc things. One of the things that has always really frustrated me about terraform is that it seems to go out of its way to make you do things in a very annoying, inconsistent way. Part of this is necessary due to the nature of the provider ecosystem, you can't guarantee consistency across providers - and I w…

If OT want to win all they need to do is actually make it possible to debug the code.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#103

Post by JohnMakin »

hamandcheese wrote: post #100
JohnMakin wrote: post #85

been using terraform heavily for 5 years and have hacked together modules and custom providers for various ad-hoc things. One of the things that has always really frustrated me about terraform is that it seems to go out of its way to make you do things in a very annoying, inconsistent way. Part of this is necessary due to the nature of the provider ecosystem, you can't guarantee consistency across providers - and I w…

What really grinds my gears is how hard it is to refactor terraform code. Put something in a module, but want to move it elsewhere? Get ready for pain. I've been using terranix, which uses nix to generate a tf.json file, and oh my god is the experience night and day. I can make functions! I can refactor! And if it's a pure refactor, there is nothing to apply.

I know many people find it painful but isn't this fairly simple with "terraform state mv?"

my process is roughly:

comment out the resource in the module, run a plan -> get output like:

"module.foo1.aws_resource.bar will be deleted"

Then copy my resource in source to module.foo2.aws_resource.bar, the command becomes:

terraform state mv module.foo1.aws_resource.bar module.foo2.aws_resource.bar

I guess this might be harder if you're using upstream "official" modules, but I avoid those like the plague.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#104

Post by maineldc »

datadeft wrote: post #21

I wish there was a type safe, algebraic data type using Terraform alternative.

We use typescript + pulumi for this. It's pretty amazing. And Pulumi uses Terraform modules under the hood so you get the full power of Terraform with the goodness of Typescript.

Even self hosting your state management in a bucket is simpler with Pulumi since it uses lock files on S3 versus a separate DyanamoDB + S3 combo.

I have been using it in production for 4-5 years and used Terraform for several years before that.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#105

Post by JohnMakin »

zug_zug wrote: post #92

Slightly off-topic, but one of my greatest pet-peeves of working in devops is every few years a new "killer tech" comes out that some contingent of very-highly-opinionated (though not always very senior) people insists is life-and-death stakes and wants the whole company to move to (e.g. terraform). Too often it's a failure. Too often it has some upsides, but also is a LOT of work that is discovered over time. Too of…

if moving to terraform fails for your org, you have much deeper issues that likely aren’t related to terraform

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#106

Post by vlovich123 »

jayd16 wrote: post #90
geodel wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats the way world works. Here in this forum so many software people asking for best possible salaries and perks, and when it comes paying a bit to good productivity software same developers are always full of excuses like. 1) Oh, I prefer open source alternative for ideological reason. 2) This software is not really worth that much. 3) Hectoring developers every single time in providing why their software should be…

It's important to remember that a community is not a single minded entity. It's members can hold many contradicting beliefs, while each individual is ideologically consistent. This shouldn't be unexpected and it's not an excuse to be dismissive to an imagined hypocrite. Not saying there aren't hypocrites in this world, just that we shouldn't treat members of a community as some kind of superset of everything in that…

It's important to remember that a company is not a single minded entity. It's members can hold many contradicting beliefs, while each individual is ideologically consistent.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#107

Post by sangnoir »

geodel wrote: post #98
jayd16 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to remember that a community is not a single minded entity. It's members can hold many contradicting beliefs, while each individual is ideologically consistent. This shouldn't be unexpected and it's not an excuse to be dismissive to an imagined hypocrite. Not saying there aren't hypocrites in this world, just that we shouldn't treat members of a community as some kind of superset of everything in that…

Its not unexpected and neither is Oracle's approach unexpected still its worth talking about. Besides I made observation about people in community and not community itself as I did not say HN thinks software should not be paid for .

> Besides I made observation about people in community[...]

Can you link any specific HN user who holds any 3 of those specific beliefs, or was this hypocritical strawman purpose-built to bolster your argument?

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#108

Post by fishnchips »

nprateem wrote: post #102
JohnMakin wrote: post #85

been using terraform heavily for 5 years and have hacked together modules and custom providers for various ad-hoc things. One of the things that has always really frustrated me about terraform is that it seems to go out of its way to make you do things in a very annoying, inconsistent way. Part of this is necessary due to the nature of the provider ecosystem, you can't guarantee consistency across providers - and I w…

If OT want to win all they need to do is actually make it possible to debug the code.

Co-founder of OpenTofu here.

Second that. One of my colleagues is working on adding proper tracing to the OpenTofu codebase, to help understand the exact cause of failures.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#109

Post by x86a »

cube2222 wrote: post #89

It's great to see more companies adopting OpenTofu, and especially larger ones! As a side note, we've recently released OpenTofu 1.7 with end-to-end state encryption, enhanced provider-defined functions, and a bunch more[0]. If you've been holding out with the migration, now is the perfect moment to take another look, and join the many companies that have already migrated! [0]: https://github.com/opentofu/opentofu/re…

I'm really excited to see the end-to-end state encryption. I've always thought it was bizarre that Hashicorp didn't prioritize this.

Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu

#110

Post by colechristensen »

cube2222 wrote: post #89

It's great to see more companies adopting OpenTofu, and especially larger ones! As a side note, we've recently released OpenTofu 1.7 with end-to-end state encryption, enhanced provider-defined functions, and a bunch more[0]. If you've been holding out with the migration, now is the perfect moment to take another look, and join the many companies that have already migrated! [0]: https://github.com/opentofu/opentofu/re…

Are there any incompatibilities cropping up between terraform and opentofu? I believe we're on terraform 1.7.5, I'm not sold on migrating yet but would like to keep the option open, especially if something like delaying an upgrade would help not have future backwards incompatible things to fix.

I understand why people were upset about licensing changes but I was not one of them who were particularly bothered. Why should I switch?

Post reply on HN