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The most talented person in the world

matt.sh

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Re: The most talented person in the world

#101

Post by friend_and_foe »

vineyardmike wrote: post #91
friend_and_foe wrote: post #80

I was nodding my head as a member of the choir until > The only future of the internet is, sadly, proof-of-person and proof-of-residence on every public network interaction Yeah, go away. The problem is that Google has monopolized web aggregation. Without it these sites wouldn't be worth making. I've got to show ID to post something online to kick that can down the road? The way I see it this is a self resolving prob…

> Yeah, go away. The problem is that Google has monopolized web aggregation. Without it these sites wouldn't be worth making. So how will you find things? > Ad driven search engines rank ad driven blog spam We don't have actual concrete proof that Google (or others) rank content with ads higher because of the ads. As a contrary corollary, generally as society grows, we've seen an increase in "proof-of-person and proo…

Look, there's a difference between showing ID to vote or get a free paycheck from someone and showing ID to shout my ideas from a rooftop. I don't need your trust to say things on the internet. If you don't trust me, don't read what I have to say. You can continue trusting Google though, I won't, this is a bait and switch and they're the source of the problem, not your lack of my identifying documents. We have no proof that they're doing it in purpose, I don't care about the intent, I care about the results.

How do I find things. I'm already living life without much google in it. There are a lot of ways to find things. Aggregators like this one have a better signal to noise ratio than google or most places that publish a lot of information. There are search engines that actively blacklist anything with SEO in it. There are community groups that focus on topics of interest. I find that I only use big search engines nowadays to find a git repo for something or find out what time some place closes, that's all they're good for nowadays. I trust people more than faceless services, and I don't care anything about who any of those people are in real life.

Re: The most talented person in the world

#102

Post by dmje »

szszrk wrote: post #50
frabjoused wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still would like to search and not get the dog crap that is Google's Internet, in addition to using LLMs myself.

I know it's the other way around of what you are suggesting, but I feel I'm using Kagi for a while for the same reasons, with results you expect. Their search is much, much cleaner, that's for sure. But what made me stick (and mostly ditch DDG, which btw is also much cleaner than google), was how well their fastgpt works as a search tool. Summaries are very good, it includes recent events and news, it goes through pd…

Yes - and the other killer feature in Kagi is being able to uprank your own choice of sites, and set contexts for this upranking. That to me is the killer thing about it

Re: The most talented person in the world

#103

Post by cal85 »

keyboardJones wrote: post #15
api wrote: post #3

This kind of spam was already destroying the web before LLMs came along. Now it’s being accelerated by thousands of times. Mainstream web search is probably cooked. Kagi and other niche players might have a chance if the fact that they are not beholden to advertisers lets them introduce features to do things like downrank content with ads. Kagi has “small web” which I think includes this in its weighting. Open social…

My strategy been to put my money where my mouth is and start paying for services that provide value to me (Kagi is one example - I’m a paying customer, and actually found this article using their small web site)

Strategy for what?

Re: The most talented person in the world

#104

Post by brabel »

parpfish wrote: post #85
jprete wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find personal email to be almost useless for anything other than mailing lists and online shopping messages. I don't consider it fixed; we already left it to burn.

I use email constantly but I can’t tell you the last time I saw actual spam in my inbox Sure, there are occasional unwanted marketing emails but those are easily dispatched with unsubscribe and/or inbox filters

Depends on your provider. My GMail is fine, but my much older Hotmail is a spam cesspool. It's so bad I barely check it anymore the last couple of years, despite having been able to keep that email address since something like 1996. As I had "exposed" that to some email farms I probably got into some really bad spammers lists which Microsoft seems unable to stop.

Re: The most talented person in the world

#105

Post by brabel »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #100

Time to go back to Yahoo! search engine with manually added and verified links. Automated web crawling experiment has failed. Anyway, whatever I search, I end up in either reddit or wikipedia (incidentally, both are human-curated stores of knowledge).

I don't know about Wikipedia, but Reddit is full of bots. They're sophisticated enough you may not recognize some comments are not from a human though. That's worse than when it was always obvious.

Re: The most talented person in the world

#106

Post by sebtron »

> The only future of the internet is, sadly, proof-of-person and proof-of-residence on every public network interaction.

I really hope we do not give up the internet's freedom as they suggest (and I doubt this would solve the spam problem).

Re: The most talented person in the world

#107

Post by fxtentacle »

itissid wrote: post #98
frabjoused wrote: post #30

Has anyone built a search engine that uses LLMs to pre-grade every page with metrics such as: - Commercial bias (content compared to the source, which it learns about) - Insincere motives - Bloat (how many words it takes to say how little to penalize SEO bloat) I would assume that using LLMs, we can get a pretty good idea of what is SEO bloat and who the bad actors are by this point, and just penalize those results.

Sounds a bit more like you want to do something reranking-ish. Ideally, you would train a retrieval system to retrieve the most relevant pages which would inturn have been trained on a dataset not very different from MS-Marco. This would get you a small set of documents you want to rerank. For reranking to be able to detect commercial bias, insincerity or bloat you could use LLMs but IIRC you train a multiclass class…

I think Kagi should add a feature where I can subscribe to the domain blocks of someone else. Every time I see a spam blog, I can easily prevent the domain from polluting future results. But it'd be great if I could also use my friends lists to rank their blocked domains to the end of my search results.

Re: The most talented person in the world

#108

Post by fxtentacle »

sebtron wrote: post #106

> The only future of the internet is, sadly, proof-of-person and proof-of-residence on every public network interaction. I really hope we do not give up the internet's freedom as they suggest (and I doubt this would solve the spam problem).

As much as I hate the idea, I'm convinced it would be a godsent for 99% of the population.

Just imagine when you buy your SIM card the phone shop asks you: Do you want to limit incoming calls to people who you either called before or who have ever had a permanent residence in your country? 99% of spam and scam calls blocked, just like that.

And just imagine how hilarious it would be if all those Nigerian prince emails had a note that says "actually, the sender of this email has never been to Nigeria"

Re: The most talented person in the world

#109

Post by zandrew »

sebtron wrote: post #106

> The only future of the internet is, sadly, proof-of-person and proof-of-residence on every public network interaction. I really hope we do not give up the internet's freedom as they suggest (and I doubt this would solve the spam problem).

Agree, as much as we hate AI-generated content, what’s to say that the content isn’t helpful to some in some instances?

Also, as long as search engines do their job, engagement on high quality pieces will always justify having a human write art

Re: The most talented person in the world

#110

Post by Uehreka »

frabjoused wrote: post #30

Has anyone built a search engine that uses LLMs to pre-grade every page with metrics such as: - Commercial bias (content compared to the source, which it learns about) - Insincere motives - Bloat (how many words it takes to say how little to penalize SEO bloat) I would assume that using LLMs, we can get a pretty good idea of what is SEO bloat and who the bad actors are by this point, and just penalize those results.

What makes you think that LLMs will be better at combating spam than they are at creating it? There’s no universal rule that innovations in AI will go hand in hand with innovations in detecting AI, yet I feel like I see people talking all the time like that’s the case.

As of right now, LLMs are prolific but unreliable, which makes them extremely well suited for generating spam, but unsuited to detecting it without a large number of false positives and negatives.

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