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GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

nian.llmonpy.ai

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Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#101

Post by hackerlight »

causality0 wrote: post #64

I don't understand OpenAI's pricing strategy. For free I can talk to GPT 3.5 on an unlimited basis, and a little to GPT 4o. If I pay $20 a month, I can talk to GPT 4o eighty times every three hours, or once every two and a half minutes. That's both way more than I need, and way less than I would expect for twenty dollars a month. I wish they had a $5 per month tier that included, say, eighty messages per 24-hours.

It'll make more sense when they deploy audio and image capability to paying users only, which they say they're going to do in a few weeks

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#102

Post by [deleted] »

bearjaws wrote: post #81

I just used it to compare two smaller legal documents and it completely hallucinated that items were present in one and not the other. It did this on three discrete sections of the agreements. Using ctrl-f I was able to see that they were identical in one another. Obviously this is a single sample but saying 90% seems unlikely. They were around ~80k tokens total.

[deleted]

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#103

Post by cma »

furyofantares wrote: post #80
sftombu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't answer the questions without the limericks in the prompt. The benchmark is to establish how well it uses the context window. For example, I just asked it "What is sought by the English top brass?". The answer from the limerick is "Cranberry glass" and 4o answers correctly when given the associated limerick once out of 2500+ limericks. However, without the limerick, 4o responded with: "The term "English top b…

This sounds dumb - but what if you give it all the limericks MINUS the one you want it to answer about? I think it will fail, but this actually seems like the cleanest way to demonstrate it.

Still not enough to rule out training on the data in the task affecting the task. It may be that it couldn't find it without it appearing in the training data, but even with that it also needs it in its context window to bridge enough connections from the training or whatever to do well on the task.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#104

Post by cma »

sftombu wrote: post #72
cma wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't it still be invalidated by it if it was indeed trained on it? The others may do worse and may or may not have been trained on it, but them failing on ititself doesn't imply 4o can do this well without the task being present in the corpus.

It can't answer the questions without the limericks in the prompt. The benchmark is to establish how well it uses the context window. For example, I just asked it "What is sought by the English top brass?". The answer from the limerick is "Cranberry glass" and 4o answers correctly when given the associated limerick once out of 2500+ limericks. However, without the limerick, 4o responded with: "The term "English top b…

> It can't answer the questions without the limericks in the prompt.

Maybe I can't solve a bunch of mostly memorized math problems without a visual mnemonic aid. Someone seeing me fail the problems without the visual aid doesn't rule out me having partly memorized solutions.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#105

Post by kylebenzle »

bearjaws wrote: post #81

I just used it to compare two smaller legal documents and it completely hallucinated that items were present in one and not the other. It did this on three discrete sections of the agreements. Using ctrl-f I was able to see that they were identical in one another. Obviously this is a single sample but saying 90% seems unlikely. They were around ~80k tokens total.

What you are asking an llm to do here makes no sense.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#106

Post by potatoman22 »

kylebenzle wrote: post #105
bearjaws wrote: post #81

I just used it to compare two smaller legal documents and it completely hallucinated that items were present in one and not the other. It did this on three discrete sections of the agreements. Using ctrl-f I was able to see that they were identical in one another. Obviously this is a single sample but saying 90% seems unlikely. They were around ~80k tokens total.

What you are asking an llm to do here makes no sense.

Why not? It seems like a natural language understanding task

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#107

Post by marshray »

kylebenzle wrote: post #105
bearjaws wrote: post #81

I just used it to compare two smaller legal documents and it completely hallucinated that items were present in one and not the other. It did this on three discrete sections of the agreements. Using ctrl-f I was able to see that they were identical in one another. Obviously this is a single sample but saying 90% seems unlikely. They were around ~80k tokens total.

What you are asking an llm to do here makes no sense.

You haven't seen the promotion of the use of LM AI for handling legal documents?

It's purported to be a major use case.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#108

Post by k__ »

theptip wrote: post #84
nsagent wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A number of people in my lab do research into long context evaluation of LLMs for works of fiction. The likelihood is very high that Moby Dick is in the training data. Instead the people in my lab have explored recently published books to avoid these issues. See BooookScore ( https://openreview.net/forum?id=7Ttk3RzDeu ) which was just presented at ICLR last week and FABLES ( https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.01261 ) a recen…

I suppose the question then is - if you finetune on your own data (eg internal wiki) does it then retain the near-perfect recall? Could be a simpler setup than RAG for slow-changing documentation, especially for read-heavy cases.

"if you finetune on your own data (eg internal wiki) does it then retain the near-perfect recall"

No, that's one of the primary reasons for RAG.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#109

Post by internet101010 »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #51

This is based on a limericks dataset published in 2021. https://zenodo.org/records/5722527 I think it very likely that gpt-4o was trained on this. I mean, why would you not? Innnput, innnput, Johnny five need more tokens. I wonder why the NIAN team don't generate their limericks using different models, and check to make sure they're not in the dataset? Then you'd know the models couldn't possibly be trained on them.

No disassemble!

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#110

Post by semi-extrinsic »

pushedx wrote: post #57
jddj wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a spot the difference. Generate 1000 generic facts about Alice and the same 1000 facts about Eve. Randomise the order and change one minor detail then ask how they differ.

sort alice.txt | diff - That's not a task for an LLM

I see you are being downvoted, but I agree with you.

A useful test would copy all Alice statements to Eve statements, then rewrite all of the Eve statements using synonyms, and then finally change one or two details for Eve.

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