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LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops

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Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops

#101

Post by seanp2k2 »

farmdve wrote: post #9

Remember that Haswell laptops were the last to feature socketed CPUs. RAM is nice to upgrade, for sure. As well as an SSD, but CPUs are still a must. I would even suggest upgradeable GPUs but I don't think the money is there for the manufacturers. Why allow you to upgrade when you can buy a whole new laptop?

They've done upgradeable laptop GPUs before with MXM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module

Looks like the best card they have out with MXM right now is a Quadro RTX 5000 Mobile which seem to be going for ~$1000 on eBay.

Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops

#102

Post by kristianp »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #99
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hoping we see AMD Strix Halo with it's 256-bit interface crammed into an aggressively cooled fairly-thin fairly-light. But it's going to require heavy cooling to make full use of. Heck, make it only run full tilt when on an active cooling dock. Let it run half power when unassisted.

Kinda hilarious to see gamers buying laptops that can't actually leave the house in any practical meaningful way. I feel like some of them would be better off with SFF PCs and the external monitors they already use. I guess the biggest appeal I've seen is the ability to fold up the gaming laptop and put the dock away to get it off the desk, but then moving to an SFF on the ground plus a wireless gaming keyboard and w…

My wife can get an hour of gaming out of her gaming laptop. They're good for being able to game in an area of the house where the rest of the family is, even if that means being plugged in at the dining table. Our home office isn't close enough.

Also a gaming laptop is handy if you want to travel and game at your hotel.

Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops

#103

Post by seanp2k2 »

pavon wrote: post #56
zamadatix wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it's all subjective (e.g. I'm sure someone here even considers the original dual core Haswell more than fine without upgrade in 2024) but going from a dual core Haswell to a quad core Haswell (or even a generation or two beyond, had it been supported) as an upgrade a decade after the fact just doesn't seem worth it to me. The RAM/SSD sure - a 2 TB consumer SSD wasn't even a possible thing to buy until a year…

This matches my experience. Every PC I've built over the last 30 years have benefited from memory and storage upgrades through their life, and I've upgraded GPU a few times. However, every time I've looked at upgrading to another CPU with the same socket it is either not a big enough step up, or too much of a power hog relative to the midrange CPU I originally built with. The only time I've replaced CPUs is when I've…

Yup, so I've adopted a strategy for my past few desktop builds like this:

  - Every time a new ToTL GPU comes out for a new family, buy it at retail price as soon as it launches (so, the first-available ToTL models that were big gains in perf: GTX 1080 Ti, RTX 2080 Ti, RTX 3090, RTX 4090)

  - Every other release cycle, upgrade CPU to the ToTL consumer chip (eg on a 12900KS right now, HEDT like ThreadRipper is super expensive and not usually better for gaming or normal dev stuff). I was with Ryzen since 1800x -> 3950x -> 5950x but Intel is better for the particular game I play 90% of the time.

  - Every time you upgrade, sell the stuff you've upgraded ASAP. If you do this right and never pay above MSRP for parts, you can usually keep running very high-end hardware for minimal TCO.

  - Buy a great case, ToTL >1000w PSU (Seasonic or be quiet!), and ToTL cooling system (currently on half a dozen 140mm Noctua fans and a Corsair 420mm AIO). This should last at least 3 generations of upgrading the other stuff.

  - Storage moves more slowly than the rest, and I've had cycles where I've re-used RAM as well, so again here go for the good stuff to maximize perf, but older SSDs work great for home servers or whatever else.

  - Monitor and other peripherals are outside of the scope of this but should hopefully last at least 3 upgrade generations. I bit when OLED TVs supported 4K 120hz G-Sync, so I've got a 55" LG G1 that I'm still quite happy with and not wanting to immediately upgrade, though I do wish they made it in a 42" size, and 16:10 would be just perfect.

Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops

#104

Post by seanp2k2 »

immibis wrote: post #29
zamadatix wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I really get much value out of a socketed CPU, particularly in a laptop, vs something like a swappable MB+CPU combo where the CPU is not socketed. RAM/Storage are great upgrades because 5 years from now you can pop in 4x the capacity at a bargain since it's the "old slow type". CPUs don't really get the same growth in a socket's lifespan.

Socket AM4 had a really good run. Maybe we just have to pressure manufacturers to make old-socket variations of modern processors. The technical differences between sockets aren't usually huge. Upgrade the memory standard here, add or remove PCIe lanes there. Using new cores with an older memory controller may or may not be doable, but it's quite simple to not connect all the PCIe lanes the die supports.

but then what excuse would you have to throw another $500 at Asus for their latest board that while being the best chance the platform has, still feels like it runs a beta BIOS for the first 9 months of ownership?

Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops

#106

Post by pezezin »

redeeman wrote: post #84
jcotton42 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, with a reflow station everything becomes modular and repairable. Not for the average person.

true, but can the average person replace the innertube on a bicycle wheel? :)

Yes? I did it many, many times as a kid, it is not that difficult.

Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops

#108

Post by j16sdiz »

baby_souffle wrote: post #4

This is fantastic news. Hopefully the cost to manufacturers is only marginal and they find a suitable replacement for their current "each tier in RAM comes with a 5-20% price bump" pricing scheme. Too bad apple is almost guaranteed to not adopt the standard. I miss being able to upgrade the ram in macbooks.

Unified memory is basically L3 cache speed with zero copy between CPU and GPU.

They have engineering difference. Depends on who you ask, it may or may not worth it

Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops

#109

Post by babypuncher »

cesarb wrote: post #64
drivingmenuts wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is getting manufacturers to implement the new RAM standard. While the justifications given are great for the consumer, I didn't see any reason for a manufacturer to sign on. They are going to lose money when people buy new RAM, rather than a whole new laptop. While processor speeds and size haven't plateaued yet, it's going to take a while to develop significant new speed upgrades and in the meantime, the…

> While the justifications given are great for the consumer, I didn't see any reason for a manufacturer to sign on. [...] So, why should they relenquish that to the user? It makes sense that the first ones to use this new standard would be Dell and Lenovo. They both have "business" lines of computers, which usually offer on-site repairs (they send the parts and a technician to your office) for a somewhat long time (o…

They also charge a lot more for these "business-class" machines. That higher margin captures the revenue lost to DIY repairs and upgrades.

Re: LPCAMM2 is a modular, repairable, upgradeable memory standard for laptops

#110

Post by userbinator »

A bit of a disingenious argument intended to sell this as being more revolutionary than it really is --- BGA sockets already exist for LPDDR as well as other things like CPUs/SoCs, but they're very expensive due to low volumes. If the volume went up, they'd go down in price significantly just like LGA sockets for CPUs have.

https://www.ironwoodelectronics.com/products/lpddr/

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