Coding interviews are stupid (ish) • Hacker News Board

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#101

Post by Paul-Craft » Tue, May 07, 2024, 4:51 PM UTC

leetrout wrote: post #27

I have never heard of the negative base question (I would have never passed that without help): https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/216800/how-i-conver... My worst interview questions that were silly: • number theory for django dev: how many prime numbers are there. • random brain teaser for django dev: infinite lasers pointed in space that turn at each other at the rotational speed of light- does the intersecti…

Your last example reminds me of a particularly absurd one years ago. I got asked to write a function that calculates all the subsets of a given set. The problem wasn't the question, though. It was that the person asking me this didn't even know what "yield" was in Python.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#102

Post by fnfjfk » Tue, May 07, 2024, 4:52 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #51

citizen_friend wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- licensing ensures only a minimum level of quality - people with licenses still do interviews, often just as grueling - licensed careers with high performers (lawyers, doctors, ib, etc) have other forms of filtering which are much more painful, like years of low pay internships Studying for a few weeks to solve fun puzzles to make 400k sounds like a deal to me.

What kind of job pay 400k? Even when I worked as C++ guru at BMW and was hired as very senior my before taxes compensation was 40k (year).

Low level (L4) at big tech can clear $400k if the stock appreciates, otherwise L5 (“senior”, but really just mid level) will easily be there. Higher level ICs can make 7 figures.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#103

Post by fnfjfk » Tue, May 07, 2024, 4:54 PM UTC

sshine wrote: post #18

At this point, I’ve had enough successful positions at hard jobs that I don’t question my competency when I fail a pop quiz. I still don’t know what my favourite Rust crate is. I feel I should have one after being asked more than a couple of times.

Serde? Clap? It’s not the objectively best crate, just one you like a lot and think is well designed. Both of those are “wow, this is way better and yet simpler than every language I’ve used before” crates for me.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#104

Post by surfingdino » Tue, May 07, 2024, 4:58 PM UTC

gnutrino wrote: post #82

surfingdino wrote: post #77

I have 30+ years of experience on my CV and I still am being asked to do coding interviews... I flatly refuse every time, because they have no connection to the actual job. The hiring process disregards experience and treats everyone in the same way. Ours is a stupid industry.

Have you ever been hired by a company you refused to do the coding interview for?

Yes, more than once.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#105

Post by gopher_space » Tue, May 07, 2024, 5:00 PM UTC

citizen_friend wrote: post #49

gedy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for the devs, but "solves fun puzzles" is not a measure of quality either. The number of people who "aced the interview" but are borderline worthless for real product development is not trivial in my experience.

I still haven’t met the guy who is an algorithms genius who can’t program, but I can guarantee a license isn’t going to solve that problem.

What you want is someone who can break down a problem to the point where they can use the scientific method to come up with an algorithm on their own.

What you get is someone with canned responses in their head. And resultant mass layoffs. We're trying to automate picking just the right puppy instead of going out and playing with a few of them.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#106

Post by erikerikson » Tue, May 07, 2024, 5:01 PM UTC

sshine wrote: post #18

At this point, I’ve had enough successful positions at hard jobs that I don’t question my competency when I fail a pop quiz. I still don’t know what my favourite Rust crate is. I feel I should have one after being asked more than a couple of times.

Sounds like they are trying to discover good ones

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#107

Post by redserk » Tue, May 07, 2024, 5:06 PM UTC

fnfjfk wrote: post #100

michaelt wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they meant to say "studying for a few weeks to solve fun puzzles, after getting a CS degree from Stanford, moving to a city where a basic apartment costs $1 million, and getting 8-10 years FAANG experience, also like half that $400k is stock not cash" But no licensing!

Stock in public companies is effectively equivalent to cash, so what’s the difference? Sell on vest and buy index funds or anything you want.

That's assuming the stock price doesn't go down in the time it takes to hit your first (or any meaningful) vesting cliff.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#108

Post by Paul-Craft » Tue, May 07, 2024, 5:10 PM UTC

fileeditview wrote: post #54

lazide wrote: post #35

To bastardize a quote - ‘it’s a terrible system of government, but it’s the least terrible one we’ve been able to find’ Seriously, what are the alternatives?

I've talked with applicants about their private projects. It gave me great insights. Also take home tasks with a discussion afterwards are a good thing and can be an alternative if candidates don't have private projects to talk about.

Oh... take home tasks.

Theoretically, I agree these are a great way of generating some signal where there's not enough to be found by other methods. But, in practice, what I've found is that most of these types of exercises are way overscoped, and even those which are not put a hugely disproportionate time burden on the candidate with minimal return for most of them. In other words, nobody wants to take the time to properly review these things.

I've had much better experiences when people give me code and ask me to review it rather than when they give me a "spec" and ask me to write code based on it. One big red flag for the latter type of assignment is the phrase "production ready," as that can mean so many different things it's a borderline meaningless criterion.

I could really go on and on about this, but I'm going to stop here.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#109

Post by thaumasiotes » Tue, May 07, 2024, 5:10 PM UTC

teeray wrote: post #10

The coding interview looks different when you view it for what it would be called in other industries: a licensure examination. It looks particularly insane to relicense for every single job you apply to. It also looks supremely unfair to have proctors for this exam with varying expectations and training to actually correctly administer it.

> It also looks supremely unfair to have proctors for this exam with varying expectations and training to actually correctly administer it.

Those are your top two problems? When was the last time you saw an exam where the proctor was expected to hold a conversation with the examinees?

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#110

Post by Paul-Craft » Tue, May 07, 2024, 5:13 PM UTC

mlhpdx wrote: post #65

CraigRo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of us already putting in 10-14 hours per day at our day jobs, or who work in regulated industries, this is a nonstarter. My experience is that the people who are really good are kept pretty busy by their employer

I avoid the issue by asking for “a page of code you want to have a conversation about”. If needed, I clarify it can be code they wrote, code they use or just code they are curious an about. Failing to bring something, anything, is obviously a problem (and happens occasionally). The discussion quickly illuminates where the candidate is in their career.

I would love to be the candidate in this interview. Are you hiring? :-)