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Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

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Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#101

Post by VelesDude »

nokcha wrote: post #9

> ultra-processed foods such as ... yogurts > Frozen and canned vegetables are often classified as ultra-processed I think this goes against the common usage of the term "ultra-processed".

In the manufacturing industry we called Frozen and Canned vegetables "Fresher than fresh". Because they are essentially processed within a few hours of the harvest, where are the stuff we usually get at super markets are a few days at the least and up to a few months old at worst.

While there is some processing, they typically aren't removing huge amount of material or being ground up into another form.

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#102

Post by Eisenstein »

throwawaycities wrote: post #99
koolba wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yogurt from “raw milk” doesn’t even make any sense. The pasteurization step during yogurt production isn’t to make the milk safe for consumption. It’s to kill the other bacteria so the one that is deliberately introduced can thrive.

Yogurt has been around for thousands of years, pasteurized milk for less than 200. And yes the pasteurization of milk is to make it safe and it’s required by law in the US (if the milk/yogurt crosses state lines, interstate commerce). You are right in that yogurt made with raw milk, the bacteria of the raw milk will typically overtake the bacteria introduced for the fermentation. Now we have come full circle to the p…

What are the health benefits from drinking raw milk?

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#103

Post by shalmanese »

Doesn't take much digging to figure out that Gunter Kuhnle has been funded by Mars Inc [1] and Peter Rogers has been funded by Sugar Nutrition UK (fka: British Sugar Bureau) [2][3] and their names appear all the time in the popular press always defending the interests of big food.

Remember, a lot of the big food people came from big tobacco once the government started cracking down and they're just running the same playbook.

[1] https://www.linkedin.com/posts/gunter-kuhnle-13aba0171_a-who...

[2] https://www.bristol.ac.uk/people/person/Peter-Rogers-be40b6c...

[3] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/study-that-said-d...

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#104

Post by Eisenstein »

bobthepanda wrote: post #100
Eisenstein wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you counting ingredients by proportion of weight or by total number of them in the list?

At least in the US the ingredients must be ordered in order of amount, where the first is used the most.

That isn't an answer to the question I asked.

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#105

Post by bobthepanda »

Eisenstein wrote: post #104
bobthepanda wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US the ingredients must be ordered in order of amount, where the first is used the most.

That isn't an answer to the question I asked.

It’s by weight.

Not doing food measurements by weight leads to shenanigans like the baker’s dozen, and volume is also affected by humidity.

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#106

Post by throwawaycities »

Eisenstein wrote: post #102
throwawaycities wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yogurt has been around for thousands of years, pasteurized milk for less than 200. And yes the pasteurization of milk is to make it safe and it’s required by law in the US (if the milk/yogurt crosses state lines, interstate commerce). You are right in that yogurt made with raw milk, the bacteria of the raw milk will typically overtake the bacteria introduced for the fermentation. Now we have come full circle to the p…

What are the health benefits from drinking raw milk?

Depends on the animal, but in general milk is nutrient dense, contains fat, protein, carbs, vitamins and minerals.

Like all dietary/nutrition sciences there are plenty of studies for both sides of arguments (e.g. coffee is healthy/unhealthy, eggs are healthy/unhealthy), so you can easily find studies that contradict the benefits of bacteria in raw milk (certainly there is a potential safety risk) but here’s an NIH study supporting raw milk’s association with promotion of bacteria in the microbiome beneficial to physical/mental outcomes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7285075/

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#107

Post by Eisenstein »

bobthepanda wrote: post #105
Eisenstein wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't an answer to the question I asked.

It’s by weight. Not doing food measurements by weight leads to shenanigans like the baker’s dozen, and volume is also affected by humidity.

So you would consider 1kg of potatoes with 20g msg and 20g salt and 400g sugar to be unprocessed?

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#108

Post by Eisenstein »

throwawaycities wrote: post #106
Eisenstein wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the health benefits from drinking raw milk?

Depends on the animal, but in general milk is nutrient dense, contains fat, protein, carbs, vitamins and minerals. Like all dietary/nutrition sciences there are plenty of studies for both sides of arguments (e.g. coffee is healthy/unhealthy, eggs are healthy/unhealthy), so you can easily find studies that contradict the benefits of bacteria in raw milk (certainly there is a potential safety risk) but here’s an NIH st…

> Like all dietary/nutrition sciences there are plenty of studies for both sides of arguments (e.g. coffee is healthy/unhealthy, eggs are healthy/unhealthy), so you can easily find studies that contradict the benefits of bacteria in raw milk (certainly there is a potential safety risk)

Apparently not, as per the study you linked to.

"To our knowledge, there are no studies exploring the impact of unpasteurised milk intake on the gut microbiome."

> here’s an NIH study

It isn't an NIH study, it was done in Ireland.

"This research received no specific external funding but authors are supported in part by the Science Foundation Ireland in the form of a center grant (Alimentary Pharmabiotic Centre Grant number SFI/12/RC/2273)."

> raw milk’s association with promotion of bacteria in the microbiome beneficial to physical/mental outcomes

The study was selection of 24 people out of a group that paid to spend 12 days on an organic farm in Ireland learning how to cook from a celebrity chef. During the stay they drank unpasteurized milk and ate fresh farm food and at the end had more lactobacillus in their fecal matter and some of them reported less anxiety. Unfortunately, I don't see much value in this data.

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#109

Post by bobthepanda »

Eisenstein wrote: post #107
bobthepanda wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s by weight. Not doing food measurements by weight leads to shenanigans like the baker’s dozen, and volume is also affected by humidity.

So you would consider 1kg of potatoes with 20g msg and 20g salt and 400g sugar to be unprocessed?

unprocessed and level of processing is different.

according to one of the most used classifications there are four levels of processing:

* unprocessed/minimally processed food, where the food is either in its natural state or the processing has not added anything to it

* processed culinary ingredients, where the foods are extracted directly from natural state

* processed foods, which are natural foods plus processed culinary foods,

and

* ultra processed food, which are industrial formulations made with minimal amounts of base natural foods.

Humans have always done some processing of food. The ultra processed food since the industrial revolution has been identified as very unhealthy. That doesn't make the other foods not unhealthy; even foods in their natural state can be unhealthy.

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78...

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#110

Post by throwawaycities »

Eisenstein wrote: post #108
throwawaycities wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the animal, but in general milk is nutrient dense, contains fat, protein, carbs, vitamins and minerals. Like all dietary/nutrition sciences there are plenty of studies for both sides of arguments (e.g. coffee is healthy/unhealthy, eggs are healthy/unhealthy), so you can easily find studies that contradict the benefits of bacteria in raw milk (certainly there is a potential safety risk) but here’s an NIH st…

> Like all dietary/nutrition sciences there are plenty of studies for both sides of arguments (e.g. coffee is healthy/unhealthy, eggs are healthy/unhealthy), so you can easily find studies that contradict the benefits of bacteria in raw milk (certainly there is a potential safety risk) Apparently not, as per the study you linked to. "To our knowledge, there are no studies exploring the impact of unpasteurised milk in…

> Apparently not, as per the study you linked to.

Follow the logic for the specific examples I gave, you will find studies where eggs are healthy/unhealthy and coffee is healthy/unhealthy

I provided a study that concluded there’s an association between raw milk and microbiome health resulting in positive physical/mental outcomes.

You clearly asked in bad faith, as I said generally raw milk is nutrient dense a significant source of fat, protein, carbs, vitamins and minerals. Unlike pasteurized milk that kills the good bacteria and enzymes, store bought milk removes much of the fat and adds sugar, it’s not the same product from a nutrient perspective.

Regarding the microbiome study, based on your objections, you wouldn’t be satisfied with any microbiome studies, nearly every microbiome study will be funded by a source you would find objectionable to fit your narrative whatever that might be, so I fail to understand your point besides being strangely argumentative on HN. Feel free to search the plethora of studies yourself.

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