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Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

fortune.com

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Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#101

Post by dingnuts »

ra7 wrote: post #67
nsxwolf wrote: post #53

So I have to be ready to react to a mistake the car is making, not having any insight into the thought process of the car. I have to be a constantly vigilant backseat driver. Am I on the hook for accidents?

This is L3, so you don’t have to constantly supervise like you do a Tesla with FSD (L2). Mercedes even says you can watch movies or read books. They will achieve a minimum safety condition on their own, which for this system is stopping in the lane with hazard lights on. They also say they will take liability provided you haven’t misused the system or failed to properly maintain the car. But L3 has this grey area whe…

am I the only one in the comment section that thinks this sounds great for commuting in heavy traffic at low speeds, which is the absolute most miserable type of driving?

ya sound of an alarm when we get through the traffic and I can actually drive, fine with me, I'll play on my phone

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#102

Post by yCombLinks »

jen20 wrote: post #83
jeffbee wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber has sent me cars that did not have tires, wipers, or headlights. The fact that Waymo sends you a roadworthy car is, by itself, worth $5 per trip.

Is it? Or should a roadworthy car be considered table stakes for actually being on the road, and one which is not is instead worth a police report?

Should be doesn't help. This is what actually happens.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#103

Post by kwhitefoot »

ra7 wrote: post #67
nsxwolf wrote: post #53

So I have to be ready to react to a mistake the car is making, not having any insight into the thought process of the car. I have to be a constantly vigilant backseat driver. Am I on the hook for accidents?

This is L3, so you don’t have to constantly supervise like you do a Tesla with FSD (L2). Mercedes even says you can watch movies or read books. They will achieve a minimum safety condition on their own, which for this system is stopping in the lane with hazard lights on. They also say they will take liability provided you haven’t misused the system or failed to properly maintain the car. But L3 has this grey area whe…

What I read is that you have to be able to take over within ten seconds. That's not very long if you have become absorbed in something else.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#104

Post by kwhitefoot »

Retric wrote: post #89
bhauer wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Drivers can activate Mercedes's technology. called Drive Pilot, when certain conditions are met, including in heavy traffic jams, during the daytime, on specific California and Nevada freeways, and when the car is traveling less than 40 mph. Drivers can focus on other activities until the vehicle alerts them to resume control. The technology does not work on roads that haven't been pre-approved by Mercedes, includ…

Level 3 actually lets you take a break while driving. L2 systems don’t and therefore IMO don't provide significant benefits. More range and more driving conditions just don’t matter here if I can’t read a book on the way to work then it’s not self driving just advanced cruse control.

Not really. Mercedes say you have to be able to take over within ten seconds.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#105

Post by Gud »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #103
ra7 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is L3, so you don’t have to constantly supervise like you do a Tesla with FSD (L2). Mercedes even says you can watch movies or read books. They will achieve a minimum safety condition on their own, which for this system is stopping in the lane with hazard lights on. They also say they will take liability provided you haven’t misused the system or failed to properly maintain the car. But L3 has this grey area whe…

What I read is that you have to be able to take over within ten seconds. That's not very long if you have become absorbed in something else.

10 seconds is absolutely a long enough time to context switch

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#106

Post by RichardHesketh »

ra7 wrote: post #82
BoorishBears wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on AVs and this is a) incredibly useful b) the future of self-driving L3 is 100% the groundbreaking part because it's when the manufacturer has to take liability and it's where people can actually afford it. I believe in the technology "trickling up" for L3 much more than I believe tech in our million dollar robotaxis trickling down to consumer vehicles.

I think it’s a good first step, but it’s still limited in usability in its current iteration.

This. It matters how you achieve level three. MBs solution requires a lot of legwork to build the datasets describing the specific roads where the L3 capability can then operate. There’s a massive amount to do in this approach to even come close to supporting a useful subset of all roads in their key markets. To my mind, Tesla is playing a long game betting on achieving a more generalised solution that doesn’t rely on having a detailed database encompassing every inch of many roads in vast amounts of detail that have to be captured in a costly, resource intensive effort. That, or their vast fleet of vehicles is gathering the data for them to leapfrog the likes of MB to higher levels of autonomy using a fused approach in the future. No other manufacturer yet has a comparable on the road data gathering capability. It’s a matter of opinion right now which of these stands a better chance of succeeding at higher levels of autonomy alone - the best chance may be a synthesis of both, or something else entirely. Fanboy holy wars aren’t going to resolve any of this.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#107

Post by wolfram74 »

petermcneeley wrote: post #87

Congrats to Mercedes but I wonder if we could have had autonomous interstate travel in the 90s.

there were a couple automated urban lines in pre-90s. If we hadn't cannibalized the inter-urban trolley cars for public roads but private rails in the 1920s, who knows what would have happened.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#108

Post by syntaxing »

I work on L3 technology but my opinion is of my own and not my employers. It’s laughable how people think FSD is better than L3 as of today. If it is, then why doesn’t Tesla sell it as one? The big difference is liability, can you play on your phone legally and safely while the car drives itself when autonomy is engaged? If so, it’s L3. If not, it’s L2.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#109

Post by sschueller »

thibran wrote: post #47

A PR lie. Watch a Tesla FSD 12.3.4 video, then one of Mercedes and see for yourself.

Mercedes stands behind thir L3 and takes the responsibility for it taking the liability away from the driver.

Tesla can not do this no matter what they claim they can do. When their system fails is fails spectacularly and no company in their right mind would want to be liable for that.

It doesn't matter what Tesla can do in 80% of the time when it can't do it 20% of the time.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#110

Post by timeon »

thibran wrote: post #69
qeternity wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is all wrong. Mercedes is offering L3. Tesla FSD is partial L2. The fact that Tesla doesn't self insure tells you everything you need to know. Writing that off as some footnote is missing the forest for the trees.

Tesla FSD capabilities far exceeds all other car manufacture systems by a wide margin. Mercedes has Level 3, but that's only a legal thing, it says nothing about what the car can actually do. Right now hundreds of thousands American Tesla owners are in their one month free trial FSD month and drive around with it on all kind of streets and weather conditions. There is no one else beside Tesla that is capable of doing…

> that's only a legal thing

It is not only. Tesla is unable to provide same guarantees or does not trust FSD.

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