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The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

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Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#101

Post by hinkley »

erikerikson wrote: post #86
vkou wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless they are given meaningful equity, it's not their ship, and regardless of whether it is or isn't, unlike the shareholders and creditors, they won't be sinking with it. If you want worker interests to be even a little aligned with owner interests, the correct corporate structure is not an S corp, or a C corp, it is some flavor of worker co-op. And even then, it can't grow too big.

A co-op only attenuates to employees. There are better options. Example: FairShares Commons

Don’t you have the same problem illustrated by this author? My perspective is the “untapped” people get diminished rewards for their inputs because they are being outplayed by politicos who inflate their importance to the process at the expense of others. For some people it is less work to make the system unfair than to excel on a fair system.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#102

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

I'm more interested in figuring out what kind of knowledge base most reliably turns a junior dev into a "skilled pragmatist".

My guess is the highest ROI thing one can do in software engineering is take your command line environment and OS internals seriously to heart. This can be either bash/Unix or PowerShell/Windows, depending on your career goals, although having gotten reasonably good with both sets I'd recommend the former. Wherever you go, you'll have that ultra portable knowledge to rely on, and do in 10 lol minutes what might take your coworkers 20 or 30.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#103

Post by lucianbr »

NateEag wrote: post #63

This is an appealing narrative without evidence. How does the author know Marias make up the majority of most companies? Where's the data supporting that claim? It may be true - it sounds plausible to those of us who've been a Maria in the salt mines of a dysfunctional company. It appeals to us to think we're the hidden gems the company needs to invest in. Something being appealing doesn't make it true, though, even…

There's some useful insight here even if the percents are wrong. Whatever the numbers, even if 10% are Marias, they're still an untapped resource, if not "the biggest". And the fact that some of us have been this person proves the percentage is not zero.

Feels like you found a small inaccuracy in the text, and jumped up "Aha! Everything you said is wrong!". Also an appealing narrative.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#104

Post by beeboobaa3 »

rybosworld wrote: post #75
beeboobaa3 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be projecting a lot of insecurities. Some people prefer not to work in such an environment, and that is okay. Those people just switch jobs until they're satisfied, there is no "controlling other people" or whatever nonsense you dreamed up.

> You seem to be projecting a lot of insecurities. Interesting counter argument. > Those people just switch jobs until they're satisfied, there is no "controlling other people" This is exactly what I said in my comment, if you take the time to read it.

Yes, how did you go from

> wisely chooses his employers to not end-up in such environments

to

> implies you have control over the other people that work at the company

instead of just assuming they'll just leave?

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#105

Post by kerblang »

hinkley wrote: post #92
kerblang wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree: It's not 75%. But you're suddenly substituting the word "brilliant" for "pragmatic" and that's kinda questionable. It might be that you define brilliant differently than some others, so that IQ is much less significant than pragmatism itself in your equation of brilliance; but if you think IQ -> pragmatic, I disagree. I think they're orthogonal.

Yeah that might have been a poor word choice or projection on my part. As I replied elsewhere, I feel I am in this quadrant and I often actively look for sympathetic people among bosses and peers to talk to about it. If there are more than ten people I have someone to talk to, but it’s never been anywhere near 75%. And one time I got a very rude awakening when I discovered several of those people were all sizzle and…

Okay, good. As authentic "pragmatism" goes, the author conveys a sense of cynical pragmatist-in-waiting rather than activist pragmatist-in-action; I would do the pragmatic thing, and yes, I'm smart enough, but not if there's risk. So, you're surrounded by invisible pragmatists, but these are the kind of pragmatists who sometimes burn you for profit outright, but mostly just look the other way while someone else does it - if that's where the money is. Well, yeah, but what else is new?

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#106

Post by 8ytecoder »

klabb3 wrote: post #37
hinkley wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll be you ten bucks they got rid of people who bring up bad news and kept the yes-men. A company that doesn’t know what’s broken is doomed to mediocrity. But some people want to play music while the ship sinks. So they arrange for the most pleasant rest of the voyage they can, instead of saving as many people as they can.

> I’ll be you ten bucks they got rid of people who bring up bad news and kept the yes-men I’m pretty cynical and assumed this was how layoffs worked but at least in faang and even smaller (maybe 500 people) SV companies, I actually don’t think this is the case anymore. Most I’ve seen have been extremely random – it seems like they cut teams/orgs very differently but on an individual level it seems random. I got the i…

That's how I see it as well. In a layoff, the role is being eliminated as opposed to a person being fired. So they cut entire teams working on "unprofitable" products or certain roles deemed "redundant" within the product. You typically have the option to take a severance or apply for another role internally.

This is my understanding based purely on my experience getting laid off once - so take it with a huge grain of salt. The product I was working on was shutdown. I got paid a retainer to stay until the product can be properly wound down. Then got hired into a different role in a different team with a pay bump within a month. I got to keep the retainer as well - as long as I support the wind down efforts.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#107

Post by [deleted] »

luisgvv wrote: post #7

I began as a junior dev and climbed up the ranks til the point where I became the SME in some areas of the product. Got laid off because sales goals were not met while they retained people which I think were incompetent in their work. Even some guys which I think were better and more critical to the projects were dumped. I'm not climbing that ladder by being proactive and "pragmatic" again... Call me a paycheck steal…

[deleted]

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#108

Post by schaefer »

There are many assertions of facts in this blog article, for example: 75% skilled pragmatists. Do any of these facts have citations?

Even if the author were to directly state they are his observations as a developer, it would have more value than absolutely no citation.

As written, these facts are giving me a very made up or "story time" vibe.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#109

Post by georgeecollins »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #88
hankchinaski wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been doing this for years and I think it's the best output per hour worked strategy if you have a clear exit plan outside scaling the so-called ladder

> if you have a clear exit plan outside scaling the so-called ladder Exit plan is FIRE. Everything else is circus and performance art. Others can play status games, I prefer wealth games: wealth is options and options are freedom. Pragmatic, smart, skilled people are extracted from unless lucky and in a position to see outsized returns from their effort. Better to know what enough is, collect enough freedom coins, an…

I think that is a great plan and good advice, but you may find as you continue in your career that you enjoy work more. When I was starting out I was always tired, anxious and frustrated. Now I would never even get hired for those kinds of jobs (or take them). You may get to a point where you have a lot more power and discretion at work and enjoy it. There's a lot to be said for working at jobs you enjoy.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#110

Post by [deleted] »

georgeecollins wrote: post #109
toomuchtodo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you have a clear exit plan outside scaling the so-called ladder Exit plan is FIRE. Everything else is circus and performance art. Others can play status games, I prefer wealth games: wealth is options and options are freedom. Pragmatic, smart, skilled people are extracted from unless lucky and in a position to see outsized returns from their effort. Better to know what enough is, collect enough freedom coins, an…

I think that is a great plan and good advice, but you may find as you continue in your career that you enjoy work more. When I was starting out I was always tired, anxious and frustrated. Now I would never even get hired for those kinds of jobs (or take them). You may get to a point where you have a lot more power and discretion at work and enjoy it. There's a lot to be said for working at jobs you enjoy.

[deleted]
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