I am much more excited to see the progress of what Boston Dynamics is doing than by the next iteration of AI Chat.
Of course this is not directly comparable, but I think robotics is harder and more less open to brute force approaches.
An electric new era for Atlas
101–110 of 443 posts
Re: An electric new era for Atlas
#102A hill I'm willing to die on: bipedal robots are an evolutionary path that machines don't need to go down, we have lovely bearings and wheels that work perfectly with electric motors. Yes obviously there are limitations i.e. stairs and uneven terrain but there are wheeled/tracked solutions for those too Most of these robots will be used in factories that have very nice flat concrete floors
What about when a robot is carrying an uneven load and has to rebalance?
What if it is knocked over and needs to get back up?
What about Steep inclines? Stairs?
What if it needs to climb on to a different platform? A conveyer belt? A vehicle? A beam?
Even in a factory or warehouse setting wheels are useless for anything but the most ideal cases. And there are already countless robots successfully operating in that space. A general purpose robot is the holy grail, and legs are a requirement for that.
Re: An electric new era for Atlas
#103A hill I'm willing to die on: bipedal robots are an evolutionary path that machines don't need to go down, we have lovely bearings and wheels that work perfectly with electric motors. Yes obviously there are limitations i.e. stairs and uneven terrain but there are wheeled/tracked solutions for those too Most of these robots will be used in factories that have very nice flat concrete floors
I strongly disagree. One of my pet peeves is the idea of asking the world to accommodate a situation rather than build solutions that adapt to the world. Big example: the best we have for mobility nowadays is a wheelchair of some sort. That requires building special ramps and elevators everywhere. If we had a four legged chair that could climb stairs, etc, like what BD is doing, it could transport people ANYWHERE. yo…
it's hard enough for disabled people to get a non-shit wheel chair, you think the world
is going to give them the most advanced quadripedal robotic walking system of all time for nature walks in the woods?
Re: An electric new era for Atlas
#104A hill I'm willing to die on: bipedal robots are an evolutionary path that machines don't need to go down, we have lovely bearings and wheels that work perfectly with electric motors. Yes obviously there are limitations i.e. stairs and uneven terrain but there are wheeled/tracked solutions for those too Most of these robots will be used in factories that have very nice flat concrete floors
I think it really depends on where the robots will be used. yes short term they will be in factories, shipping centers, etc. Places that can be tailored to the robot.
But the long term prospects of robots would be in your home, maybe going to the store for you, whatever. We see the limitations of wheeled robots with robot vacuums. They do a decent job but are severely limited trying to do its job in a place that was designed for a human. (On the flip side it can also get some places easier than a human would, so it's a bit of a trade off).
By focusing on mimicking humans, we end up being in the best situation for both of these. Factories can try them out with minimal changes to how they operate.
Plus, it seems like the biggest hurdle isn't really walking. It seems like we have gotten that one down fairly well (not perfect obviously) and the bigger issues seem to be hands, object recognition, and just "general" AI. Can it actually do anything with the hardware it has on its own.
Re: An electric new era for Atlas
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ultimate goal is to produce general-purpose robots. If we want robots that can do everything a human can, then legs are definitely useful. One simple example: getting in and out of a car. Another thing to consider is that a legged robot can tilt itself for balance while carrying heavy objects. To carry a similar weight with a wheeled robot you'll need a much wider wheel base. And then of course, if you want to bu…
In my opinion your argument assumes there would be a single form factor for robots that will be used everywhere. This assumption has generally been false for most technology, look at the different cars or personal computer. In my opinion, we will have as many kinds of robots as there are breeds of dogs, some of which will be bipedal, but most of them will make do with wheels.
Exactly. We don't need robots that replace humans 1-for-1. If there's a building site that currently needs humans to scale ladders etc then a combination of lifts, loading bays, cranes, drones and tracked robots can do it, not legged robots that carry everything up ladders etc.
Of course that needs very smart systems that can co-ordinate but that's my point, there's an opportunity cost for everything, and I think that's better spent on AI and a multitude of other systems rather than a schoolboy sci-fi fantasy of bipedal robots
Re: An electric new era for Atlas
#106What's the best way/resource to get an honest/pragmatic view of where things stand with the "robots market" in general and how much and fast things are really progressing? I remember seeing prototypes from Toshiba when I was 10 (20 years ago), and every few months, there is a company releasing an "amazing video." its mother company then spins it off like there's no adequate progress, and so on.
> What's the best way/resource to get an honest/pragmatic view of where things stand with the "robots market" in general and how much and fast things are really progressing?
Like with every other market check if the product is available for sale and at what price point. And then look up what failure points people actually using the system are complaining about. (Because every system has problems and weaknesses. If you don't see reports about any then the system hasn't left the lab where the PR of it is controlled.)
worked examples: washing machine (that's a robot alright, has a computer, actuators, sensors). Readily available commercially for 200-500 GBP. Usually works reliably, occasional reports of flooding the room.
robotic vacuum: Readily available commercially for 300-1k GBP. Works okay, reports about it spreading pet's poop around rooms.
spot from Boston Dynamics. Not as readily available as the above, but can be purchased. Reported price 74,500 USD[1] Seems to trip over its own legs sometimes in a hard to explain way: [2][3] (not to count as a dig against spot, seeing these issues is actually a great thing. It means third party people in the real world use it.)
atlas from Boston Dynamics. You can't buy it. No price advertised. You can't see third party reports of it malfunctioning. Not because it is perfect, but because nobody has access to it.
1: https://spectrum.ieee.org/boston-dynamics-spot-robot-dog-now... 2: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8bTo9Q3FWzE 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJHAJm3uMEI
Re: An electric new era for Atlas
#107Two words: Nightmare fuel.
How long before we have the YouTube remixes of this video with horror film music and a jump scare in the end blackness after the Boston Dynamics logo fades away?
Is feels like they almost designed this video with that eventuality in mind. Like that wanted a second wave of organic 3rd party viral advertising.
Re: An electric new era for Atlas
#108A hill I'm willing to die on: bipedal robots are an evolutionary path that machines don't need to go down, we have lovely bearings and wheels that work perfectly with electric motors. Yes obviously there are limitations i.e. stairs and uneven terrain but there are wheeled/tracked solutions for those too Most of these robots will be used in factories that have very nice flat concrete floors
The ultimate goal is to produce general-purpose robots. If we want robots that can do everything a human can, then legs are definitely useful. One simple example: getting in and out of a car. Another thing to consider is that a legged robot can tilt itself for balance while carrying heavy objects. To carry a similar weight with a wheeled robot you'll need a much wider wheel base. And then of course, if you want to bu…
To me the killer app would be basic house chores: cleaning, doing dishes, etc. For industrial applications I suspect we will retrofit factories for whatever robot tech we have, instead of needing humanoid robots to use interfaces designed for humans. The same goes even for commercial applications like stocking grocery shelves. Driverless cars are an obvious example already. But people probably don’t want to significantly retrofit their homes with less human-friendly interfaces.
Re: An electric new era for Atlas
#109Maybe it’s just the lighting, but this look like CGI to me.
Would you bet any money on this?
Boston Dynamics is not run by bozos, they have a pretty consistent track record of showing the real stuff.
Re: An electric new era for Atlas
#110oh wow, this looks much more like a commercial product — quite uncanny I bet it talks
I bet it cackles quietly while plotting your demise. All while it's looking the other way.