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New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

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Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#101
post #10

Education bubble is slowly deflating. Drawing analogies to housing bubble: People would "flip" their college education for a high-paying job Easy loans made it possible for everyone to participate Education prices inflated faster than core inflation, setting a higher hurdle for students There are fewer jobs at palatable salaries (various reasons) Now we have boatloads of students saddled with an education that they c…

The worst part is that just like in the housing bubble, where lenders went into strawberry fields and offered home loans for 300k houses in california to undocumented immigrants making 10/hr and then asked for everyone else to bail them out because they are shocked the person wasn't able to afford the loan. Same thing applies here. You recruit a bunch of people who have no business being at college and certainly can'…

Student debt is impossible to discharge even through bankruptcy. There is zero risk to these loans because they are federally guaranteed loans. When the student defaults, the government repays the note holder as a matter of course, then the government goes after the student. The bailout is already guaranteed. The students will not be discharged of their debt anymore than the homeowners got their mortgages paid. What happened is the feds bailed out the bank losses, AND allowed the banks to evict the homeowners AND allowed the banks to keep the houses and resell them. But all this was only a tiny amount of the cost. On top of this were the CDOs and CDSs totalling, according to one estimate, one quadrillion dollars, more than all the assets in the world. The banks/investors/speculators are still being bailed out of these "losses" which were never real losses and only represented losses to unearned and absurd gains they hoped to make as part of a pyramid scheme.

The people stuck with the debt at the bottom of the pile don't get bailouts.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it in the USA? Are you constantly chased for the debt regardless of your circumstances? There are some exceptions, but generally student loans are something that you're stuck with. That's to say, you can't just shed them in bankruptcy proceedings.

I think it's the same in the UK regards bankruptcy but what happens if you become temporarily unemployed or can only get employment that is very low paid? Is it basically "fuck you, pay me"?

When you don't pay student loans, depending on where you live, you can have your drivers license and any employment or professional licenses revoked. There is also talk of revoking passports.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#103

Perhaps it needs to be made very clear, in case there are some that still are confused about why many people (who study non-technical subjects) choose to go to college (aside from many of the well-known ones like the promises of how it would lead to a 1950s style middle-class lifestyle; because their parents made them; because it's rite-of-passage; or because their friends are there), for /whatever/ major they choose…

This sounds like Star Trek where money is abolished and everyone just simply lives. I've always wondered why anyone would want to join Starfleet? It seems like they went out into space and weren't really compensated in any manner. I'd say the people working on robots and stuff would have no incentive to work. They would simply become part of the 'non-working' class.

I think the incentives are pretty clear: fame, status and the ability to do something with your life (instead of being stuck on Earth).

Oh, and we are talking about a hypothetical situation in which money still plays a role. Having barely enough income to lead a dignified life (that should be the standard anyway, no human should be homeless or have to starve, no matter whether they work or not – but currently we try to achieve that with a complicated patchwork, at least in Europe) is not the best experience. There are tons of incentives to do more. Making more money would give you a lot more freedom to do things.

Also, why would you sit at home and watch TV when you could work on robots?

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#104
"Ask them for work. If they deny you work, ask for bread. If they deny you bread, take it." - Emma Goldman

I fall into the "some college" category. I have no issue with mopping floors, unloading trucks, waiting tables, etc. What I have an issue with is the number of applications I've filled out without getting so much as an interview. Here's my view in a nutshell: I am not above being a dishwasher. I am, however, above begging to be a dishwasher. You can only fill out so many applications for employment at literally the lowest level before you start to wonder when stealing becomes justified.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#105
post #10

Education bubble is slowly deflating. Drawing analogies to housing bubble: People would "flip" their college education for a high-paying job Easy loans made it possible for everyone to participate Education prices inflated faster than core inflation, setting a higher hurdle for students There are fewer jobs at palatable salaries (various reasons) Now we have boatloads of students saddled with an education that they c…

It's a little different, in that as far as I know, no one is trying to flog off CDSs or other swaps on Student Loan Asset Backed Securities. So it will come as a shock to the higher education industry, but may not have the broad impact that the housing and tech bubbles did.

Give it time. It took entire lifetimes of tradition and "conventional wisdom" (house prices never go down!) to make the housing bubble possible. By the time the higher education bubble bursts, there may very well be the derivatives. Remember that while housing debt was secured by the value of the real estate itself, student debt is secured by the fact that it's impossible to discharge, even in bankruptcy.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I necessarily agree with the views of the parent post (I don't know them well enough), but I think you're looking at "now" to argue the impossibility of "then". In other words, I don't think our current society really reflects much of what society will have to become in the fairly near-term future. We already have effectively unlimited energy in the form of the sun (we currently collect only a tiny, tiny fra…

You can't anticipate anything though. Perhaps someday we will have a bucolic utopian society, but we can't make current decisions based on those assumptions.

You can't anticipate anything? I think you need to expand on that.

I don't think I saw anyone advocating making decisions now based on assumptions of a Utopian society. Personally, I advocate making decisions now that increase the odds of said Utopian society.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#107
post #12

For some people a college degree can lead to a crippling level of entitlement, and unwillingness to do the kind of work they hoped to escape by attending college. A college degree doesn't preclude someone from waiting tables, cleaning up messes and answering phones. Though many graduates seem to be confused about this. For unemployed colleges grads -- here's a rudimentary formula for success. Start a free website wit…

> Start a free website with Weebly and call it IWillMopItUp.com. And let people know that you will mop up their mess for $20 and hour. Hahaha, where do you come from that you think a janitor gets payed $20/hr? And college grads are waiting tables everywhere; I know dozens doing just that. You are clueless.

> Hahaha, where do you come from that you think a janitor gets payed $20/hr?

This is the case in Australia

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the whole human race sat down and wrote up a list of things we all wanted done, it would probably be even more than we could ever accomplish. Chances are, if you're a human being, you have something on that list, and you have the ability to help complete a task that's on that list as well. Most jobs aren't necessary for our survival. OK, maybe people shouldn't be forced to work for their survival. But if they want…

People would still want to work. But they'll start working on things they actually care about, because they won't be enslaved by their fear that if they quit their jobs they'll end up homeless or without health insurance. Right now so few startups dare to actually imagine new things because investors must be pleased and profit must be made. Plus, if we escaped the job-for-survival mindset, we would actually start foc…

It's utter first-world utopian horseshit to propose this kind of thinking, of all things, as a response to today's unemployment problems. It's like you don't even realize that there are third world migrant workers picking our fruit because every single one of those unemployed college graduates is, to put it bluntly, too spoiled and decadent to do the work. Or that the lifestyle of those unemployed college graduates is made possible by armies of Chinese factory workers.

I don't mean this as a personal attack on anyone. Frankly, I'm probably too spoiled and decadent to pick fruit all day too. But I'm willing to admit that's a weakness on my part, and I'm uncomfortable living in a world where I have to rest my weight on the backs of those who will gladly and happily do what I'm either incapable of or unwilling to do.

The one saving grace for us is that if we depend on people who do things we can't or won't do, then we can climb up the value chain and make them depend on us doing things they can't or won't do. Decadent as it may be to sit in an air-conditioned office and make stupid iPhone games for other spoiled, decadent first worlders to play, at least that guy living in the Foxconn dormitory and assembling iPhones all day might be grateful to us for making sure he still has work. I'm sure the guys who made "Angry Birds" boosted demand just enough to buy a few weeks breakfast, lunch, and dinner for maybe a couple thousand Chinese factory workers.

Pretending there isn't enough work out there and hence we should pay people to do nothing is just an excuse for cultural laziness. I can't imagine any social justice in subsidizing first-world people to contribute nothing and continue to live off the backs of third-world workers. Once those Chinese factory workers and Mexican fruit pickers are out of work because we can replace them with robots, then we can talk.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#109

Perhaps it needs to be made very clear, in case there are some that still are confused about why many people (who study non-technical subjects) choose to go to college (aside from many of the well-known ones like the promises of how it would lead to a 1950s style middle-class lifestyle; because their parents made them; because it's rite-of-passage; or because their friends are there), for /whatever/ major they choose…

This sounds like Star Trek where money is abolished and everyone just simply lives. I've always wondered why anyone would want to join Starfleet? It seems like they went out into space and weren't really compensated in any manner. I'd say the people working on robots and stuff would have no incentive to work. They would simply become part of the 'non-working' class.

> I've always wondered why anyone would want to join Starfleet?

Boredom. Hooking up with aliens. To get away from disliked family and hometown. Status. Desire for structure and order in their lives. Patriotism. Family tradition. Basically the reasons people join the military today.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People would still want to work. But they'll start working on things they actually care about, because they won't be enslaved by their fear that if they quit their jobs they'll end up homeless or without health insurance. Right now so few startups dare to actually imagine new things because investors must be pleased and profit must be made. Plus, if we escaped the job-for-survival mindset, we would actually start foc…

It's utter first-world utopian horseshit to propose this kind of thinking, of all things, as a response to today's unemployment problems. It's like you don't even realize that there are third world migrant workers picking our fruit because every single one of those unemployed college graduates is, to put it bluntly, too spoiled and decadent to do the work. Or that the lifestyle of those unemployed college graduates i…

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