The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#101

Post by mikepurvis » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 7:32 PM UTC

dumbo-octopus wrote: post #65

shermantanktop wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the strawman version of the case is not strong, and of course plays on the fear of possible unspecified other things we would do if we copied China as a general approach. But what about the steelman version of the case? I think it's a lot stronger.

What is the steelman you envision?

That living in a society entails some costs but the nice things that come with it are on balance worth those costs?

And just to be clear, different societies differ on where they put that marker. Canadians believe in free hospital visits but not (yet) in free drugs, dental, or vision care. Most westerners believe in free fire and police, free schools, and free roads to drive on. Some people are starting to experiment with food and basic housing also being human rights and therefore free, though that's not yet widespread.

A lot of Americans are okay with occasional airline bailouts if it means cheaper ticket prices. So we're definitely okay with taking some things from people for the sake of investing in transportation infrastructure (roads, bridges, parking lots, airports). Just... not for trains.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#102

Post by AnimalMuppet » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 7:39 PM UTC

nickpp wrote: post #87

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine that you had to negotiate with a homeowner. You could find a price where you could buy their property. Now imagine that you had to negotiate with 10,000 homeowners. At least one of them is going to insist that their place is worth one billion dollars and count on you caving because they can hold up the entire project. That's why forced confiscation - because people try to hold the project hostage for ransom.

> because people try to hold the project hostage for ransom Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found. > imagine that you had to negotiate with 10,000 homeowners Imagine you offer them 2-10x market value. With a confidentiality clause. And the threat of confiscation or project abandonment. I believe an amiable solut…

> Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found.

Sure. It's often found in the form of a court decision.

> Imagine you offer them 2-10x market value. With a confidentiality clause. And the threat of confiscation or project abandonment. I believe an amiable solution would be found in most cases.

Sure - in most cases. And for the ones that won't? You're going to have to either abandon the project, wait for them to die, or confiscate.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#103

Post by malshe » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 7:42 PM UTC

spxneo wrote: post #27

Megaregions is nothing new but lately seem to be a testing the waters for an independent Texas state. I feel like articles like this is mentally preparing the American public for a potential secession states forming post-election.

With the caveat that I know very little about the legal aspects surrounding secession, Lawrence Wright in his book "God Save Texas" mentions that the idea of secession is only a talking point and it's not going to happen legally.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#104

Post by nickpp » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 7:43 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #102

nickpp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because people try to hold the project hostage for ransom Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found. > imagine that you had to negotiate with 10,000 homeowners Imagine you offer them 2-10x market value. With a confidentiality clause. And the threat of confiscation or project abandonment. I believe an amiable solut…

> Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found. Sure. It's often found in the form of a court decision. > Imagine you offer them 2-10x market value. With a confidentiality clause. And the threat of confiscation or project abandonment. I believe an amiable solution would be found in most cases. Sure - in most cases. And…

> And for the ones that won't?

Then you confiscate, sure. And show publicly that you offered 10x and were refused. But not confiscation by default, in all cases.

I guess my argument is that if you really want something, you better pay up. Like for anything else, from cars and boats to 10x developers. What if the government could come to you whenever they want and say: I forcefully require your work and talent and I will not pay more than market price for it.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#105

Post by brundolf » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 7:51 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #73

Question for the HNers in the "Texas Triangle": does it "feel" like a megaregion? I've spent very little time in Texas (only a handful of trips), but my impression was that there's a very stark drop from moderate density urban cores, to sprawling suburbs, to virtually uninhabited interstitials around highways. In other words: it wouldn't occur to me (as a non-Texan) to even think of Austin and Dallas as belonging to…

Spent a lot of time on the I-35 corridor between Austin and Dallas in the last 15 years

There's still a ton of farmland/open/rural space, but you pass a number of smaller cities along the highway (Waco, Temple, West, etc), and some of them have been exploding economically. Some are unrecognizable from how they used to look

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#106

Post by unethical_ban » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 7:51 PM UTC

nickpp wrote: post #87

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine that you had to negotiate with a homeowner. You could find a price where you could buy their property. Now imagine that you had to negotiate with 10,000 homeowners. At least one of them is going to insist that their place is worth one billion dollars and count on you caving because they can hold up the entire project. That's why forced confiscation - because people try to hold the project hostage for ransom.

> because people try to hold the project hostage for ransom Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found. > imagine that you had to negotiate with 10,000 homeowners Imagine you offer them 2-10x market value. With a confidentiality clause. And the threat of confiscation or project abandonment. I believe an amiable solut…

You just described eminent domain. What, you thought the government took land with no compensation? Saying it should be 2-10x market value is quibbling over execution, not ideology.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#107

Post by jmugan » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 7:54 PM UTC

dustincoates wrote: post #80

woodruffw wrote: post #73

Question for the HNers in the "Texas Triangle": does it "feel" like a megaregion? I've spent very little time in Texas (only a handful of trips), but my impression was that there's a very stark drop from moderate density urban cores, to sprawling suburbs, to virtually uninhabited interstitials around highways. In other words: it wouldn't occur to me (as a non-Texan) to even think of Austin and Dallas as belonging to…

I'm no longer there, but I grew up there, and I would say yes to an extent. Yes in that there's a large amount of movement within the area (e.g., grow up in Dallas, go to school at A&M, settle in San Antonio) and that you may have to go to one of the other cities now and then for something specialized (e.g., from Austin to Houston for a consulate or a highly specialized medical visit). There's also somewhat of a riva…

Agreed. I grew up in Dallas, went to school in Austin and College Station and now live in Austin. We frequently travel to San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston for the kids' events like dance and marching band competitions.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#108

Post by sarchertech » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 7:58 PM UTC

nickpp wrote: post #104

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found. Sure. It's often found in the form of a court decision. > Imagine you offer them 2-10x market value. With a confidentiality clause. And the threat of confiscation or project abandonment. I believe an amiable solution would be found in most cases. Sure - in most cases. And…

> And for the ones that won't? Then you confiscate, sure. And show publicly that you offered 10x and were refused. But not confiscation by default, in all cases. I guess my argument is that if you really want something, you better pay up. Like for anything else, from cars and boats to 10x developers. What if the government could come to you whenever they want and say: I forcefully require your work and talent and I w…

They can and have. It’s called conscription.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#109

Post by sarchertech » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 8:03 PM UTC

nickpp wrote: post #87

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine that you had to negotiate with a homeowner. You could find a price where you could buy their property. Now imagine that you had to negotiate with 10,000 homeowners. At least one of them is going to insist that their place is worth one billion dollars and count on you caving because they can hold up the entire project. That's why forced confiscation - because people try to hold the project hostage for ransom.

> because people try to hold the project hostage for ransom Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found. > imagine that you had to negotiate with 10,000 homeowners Imagine you offer them 2-10x market value. With a confidentiality clause. And the threat of confiscation or project abandonment. I believe an amiable solut…

> Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found.

Completely different situation. You only need the majority of the workers in the union. No single person or small group of people can hold up the process.

For this situation to be at all similar to a union negation, you’d need to group all affected property owners together, offer them some multiple of property value each and ask for a group vote as a binding decision.

That’s still eminent domain, just potentially with a higher payout, which equates to a higher cost to the taxpayers.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#110

Post by rawgabbit » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 8:14 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #73

Question for the HNers in the "Texas Triangle": does it "feel" like a megaregion? I've spent very little time in Texas (only a handful of trips), but my impression was that there's a very stark drop from moderate density urban cores, to sprawling suburbs, to virtually uninhabited interstitials around highways. In other words: it wouldn't occur to me (as a non-Texan) to even think of Austin and Dallas as belonging to…

I believe megaregions is an economic concept. It is supposed to show concentrations of linked economic activity/common infrastructure/interests. The US has 11 megaregions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaregions_of_the_United_Stat...