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A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

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Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#101

Post by ben_w »

nickburns wrote: post #74
ben_w wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Nobody cares that Nintendo has a monopoly on games published for their hardware. I think we would care if all the other console makers left the market. I think this analogy applies to Android vs. iOS — and that's despite me being annoyed by Apple acting as morality police with regard to content, instead of limiting their rules to the security domain.

comparing video game consoles to the modern smartphone is an intellectually dishonest analogy based on numbers alone, never mind what each is respectively used for. but i don't quite understand what you mean regardless. (why would we care about Nintendo if all other game console makers did what? they all just up and randomly closed shops in this hypothetical for what reason/s?)

> intellectually dishonest analogy based on numbers alone, never mind what each is respectively used for

Neither should matter.

Also, if you think the analogy misleading, please say why rather than calling it dishonest (I need more details than you've given to understand why you don't like it in those ways): this is a sincere comparison, and it's hard to learn from insults.

> they all just up and randomly closed shops in this hypothetical for what reason?

Doesn't matter. The consequences of the hypothetical in all cases are "the only console games you can buy anywhere are now vetted by one corporation".

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#102

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

nickpp wrote: post #90
seszett wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's funny that Apple is condemned here for applying inside their own platform the exact same strategy the EU is applying inside its tech market. The EU is a regulatory body and a union of democratic sovereign states. There is no comparison to be had whatsoever with a multinational for-profit company.

I actually live in the EU. We (the citizens) have zero control over that regulatory body. ZERO. None of those represent me and I have no way of influencing them in any way. While multinational companies?! I can actually stop being their customer and vote with my wallet. Much more democratic, IMHO.

> I actually live in the EU. We (the citizens) have zero control over that regulatory body. ZERO. None of those represent me and I have no way of influencing them in any way.

Wrong. You can vote for your local representatives who control the EU executive. You can vote for your EU member who control the EU parliament.

What you have zero of is knowledge of how the EU works, apparently.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#103

Post by guappa »

throwaway2990 wrote: post #89
rvense wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To start: There absolutely should be limits to what kinds of devices can be sold. E.g., they should not be dangerous to operate. If you can't make a lawnmower that doesn't harm people, it's OK for governments or the EU to tell you that you can't sell lawnmowers. It's also OK to enforce standardization in e.g. electrical sockets and other basic infrastructure. This should not come down to "consumer preference" - _espe…

> Apple's total control of all aspects of the iPhone platform is harmful to consumers in a way that is not at all obvious, especially not to the less technologically literate. This would only be true if Android did not exist. But the reality is it’s not harmful at all.

Android, the platform where you're free to be victim of a different USA company.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#104

Post by guappa »

sureMan wrote: post #62
hakdbha wrote: post #2

European iPhones will have more freedom than American iPhones. Amazing

In general, having lived and worked for extended (10 year + periods) in both the US and Europe. I find Europe have a lot more freedom, generally speaking. In some area's the US is better, and in other area's Europe is, but overall, I would tip the scale to Europe. American "freedom" have always felt to me like just pure marketing, however the same can be said for some European countries. For examples the Netherlands…

I know a woman who had married a dutch and went to live in a farm there.

Apparently it was frowned upon for women to wear pants in the village where they lived, and finally she divorced and left (also for other issues I presume, but she cited closed mindedness as a major one).

She's in her 40s, not in her 80s.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#105

Post by nickburns »

ben_w wrote: post #101
nickburns wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

comparing video game consoles to the modern smartphone is an intellectually dishonest analogy based on numbers alone, never mind what each is respectively used for. but i don't quite understand what you mean regardless. (why would we care about Nintendo if all other game console makers did what? they all just up and randomly closed shops in this hypothetical for what reason/s?)

> intellectually dishonest analogy based on numbers alone, never mind what each is respectively used for Neither should matter. Also, if you think the analogy misleading, please say why rather than calling it dishonest (I need more details than you've given to understand why you don't like it in those ways): this is a sincere comparison, and it's hard to learn from insults. > they all just up and randomly closed shop…

intellectual honesty is a concept the opposite of which i did not refer to with any intent to insult. what i mean is that, on their faces, video game consoles and smartphones are inherently different things. that you can play video games on a smartphone but you can't smartphone on a video game console is relevant. and that nearly everyone in the modern world has one (smartphones), but a relatively small number the other (video game consoles) is too.

it may just be that i genuinely don't understand your analogy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_honesty

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#106

Post by jamil7 »

nickpp wrote: post #80
nickburns wrote: post #6

that it's taken this long for an iOS clipboard manager (using obvious SDK controls) is nutty.

The fact that I don't have to worry if the newfangled clipboard manager my grandma was tricked into installing is sending the passwords she is copy&paste-ing to a server in China is wonderful.

It seems like "think of the grandmas" is the new "think of the children" line.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#107

Post by shiroiushi »

seszett wrote: post #78
shiroiushi wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>An obviously absurd analogy is if a hammer company was somehow able to force you to use their brand of nails and wood and charge you per annum for the use of whatever you built. We did not have previous legislation to handle this situation, because simple physics means that can't happen. But with modern-day complicated tools, it can, and so some regulation of this sector is absolutely needed. Is it though? To extend…

Hammers aren't a good example because there's already an established market for interoperable nails, but batteries for tools is a more appropriate comparison I think. They should absolutely get regulated, there is no good reason for Parkside batteries not to be compatible with Bosch tools, or Makita, or Ryobi or whatever else. They all have their slightly different battery interfaces, that don't have technical reason…

Sure, it's bad, but suppose that all the power tool makers except Granny Smith Tools got together and made a standard for batteries, so now you can use Makita batteries on Ryobi tools, etc. The only exception is Granny Smith tools, which have proprietary batteries that cost a fortune, and have encryption chips to prevent making compatible third-party batteries or chargers.

The Granny Smith tools cost more than the others, and are sold in boutique shops by so-called "master craftsmen" who have never actually worked professionally with power tools. Yet somehow, half of tool buyers happily buy their tools, despite knowing they have to get batteries from the Granny Smith Stores and can't use any other tools' batteries. This is even touted as a feature(!), since it "protects" owners from "unsafe" 3rd-party batteries and chargers.

Is it correct for the government to step and and protect stupid consumers from themselves? If the government did this for everything that consumers buy, we might as well just have government ownership and operation of all companies, and that was tried before with disastrous results. So at what point should government just let people make bad decisions, as long as no actual fraud is being committed? And remember the safety aspect touted by Granny Smith: they claim that it's unsafe to use non-GS batteries in their tools, and that it's a burden on them to deal with warranty claims for GS tools harmed by bad non-GS batteries. (Remember, there are a LOT of users right here on HN who will cite this safety argument for iPhones.)

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#108

Post by [deleted] »

nickburns wrote: post #105
ben_w wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> intellectually dishonest analogy based on numbers alone, never mind what each is respectively used for Neither should matter. Also, if you think the analogy misleading, please say why rather than calling it dishonest (I need more details than you've given to understand why you don't like it in those ways): this is a sincere comparison, and it's hard to learn from insults. > they all just up and randomly closed shop…

intellectual honesty is a concept the opposite of which i did not refer to with any intent to insult. what i mean is that, on their faces, video game consoles and smartphones are inherently different things. that you can play video games on a smartphone but you can't smartphone on a video game console is relevant. and that nearly everyone in the modern world has one (smartphones), but a relatively small number the ot…

[deleted]

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#109

Post by shiroiushi »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #94
nickpp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple's total control of all aspects of the iPhone platform is harmful to consumers in a way that is not at all obvious, especially not to the less technologically literate. EU's attempted total control of all aspects of the tech platforms is harmful to consumers in a way that is not at all obvious, especially not to the less economically literate. It's funny that Apple is condemned here for applying inside their o…

> EU's attempted total control of all aspects of the tech platforms is harmful to consumers in a way that is not at all obvious, especially not to the less economically literate. Who is economically illiterate here exactly? If I buy an iPhone, who owns it? Me, or Apple? According to you, it's Apple. Because they own the "platform" they get to decide what software you can run on it. No option to opt out. Apple denying…

It's not a dictatorship, though: you're free to buy an Android phone like me. Just like you're free to buy a shirt from Uniqlo or H&M or wherever instead of Louis Vuitton. Microsoft has something much, much closer to a dictatorship, but I haven't seen much action on regulating them; the only thing that finally reigned them in (a little) was the move to web apps.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#110

Post by shiroiushi »

seszett wrote: post #96
nickpp wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually live in the EU. We (the citizens) have zero control over that regulatory body. ZERO. None of those represent me and I have no way of influencing them in any way. While multinational companies?! I can actually stop being their customer and vote with my wallet. Much more democratic, IMHO.

I live in the EU too, and I've lived in other kinds of countries. I don't think you realize what it is to have zero control over your government, and to be represented by no one. Your statements are grossly hyperbolic and a misrepresentation of the (real) failings of our democracies. The whole point of the current discussion is how little power you actually have over Apple and other companies as a consumer. You canno…

>The whole point of the current discussion is how little power you actually have over Apple and other companies as a consumer. You cannot actually "vote with your wallet" by not buying any smartphone or not mowing your grass, it doesn't work.

I don't know about you, but I've never owned an iPhone. Android phones have worked, and still work, great for me. You don't have to buy an iPhone to have a smartphone.

I have power over Apple by simply not buying their crap, which is exactly what I've done. If other people like you did this instead of expecting someone else to control the company you willingly shovel your money to, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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