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A 29-year-old on the difficulties of landing a first job

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Re: A 29-year-old on the difficulties of landing a first job

#101

Post by amalag »

JPKab wrote: post #61
patio11 wrote: post #4

If you were my little brother, and you told me that you had applied to 100 jobs you were strongly qualified for and got zero offers, I would put on my big brother pants and make some fairly pointed observations about your skills, beginning with lead qualification. I would then advise working on skills like lead qualification over sending out 100 more resumes into a process which, as your big brother who loves you has…

"At the age of 29, I've likely forever lost the following opportunities due to cost and probable inability to make up for lost wages and career potential: - Getting married. - Having children. - Studying any more, whether that means grad school, law school, or even just night classes at a random community college." So let's go through this step by step: 1) Getting married doesn't require money if you find the right w…

Great comment! I gotta agree with you. Just live below your means and you will do fine. And you absolutely right about getting your foot in the door. I did it with some linux skills that I picked up and just kept learning on the job. I am still amazed at a friend of mine who does well with just data integration, stuff that I showed him, but he made a business out of. And yeah kids don't need designer clothes to be happy. My wife says she is going to get our kid 1 toy and he better be happy with it. We'll see.

Re: A 29-year-old on the difficulties of landing a first job

#102

Post by cafard »

DanI-S wrote: post #37

There are a shocking number of people here with no outward empathy, understanding nor willingness to see outside of their own limited experience. The world is not the tech industry. Not everybody has the same perspective as you. In fact, more people find themselves in this chap's shoes than in yours. You're likely posting on here because you're under some illusion that you're an entrepreneur. How can you build a succ…

I was 29, quite a while ago. I was working in what clearly enough was s dead-end job, in business that hardly exists. During my 20s, I had only one brief spell without a W-2 job, but I wasn't making much money or doing any very interesting work. I regarded the roots of this as my own not figuring out what to do.

Re: A 29-year-old on the difficulties of landing a first job

#103

Post by randomdata »

DanI-S wrote: post #37

There are a shocking number of people here with no outward empathy, understanding nor willingness to see outside of their own limited experience. The world is not the tech industry. Not everybody has the same perspective as you. In fact, more people find themselves in this chap's shoes than in yours. You're likely posting on here because you're under some illusion that you're an entrepreneur. How can you build a succ…

To be fair, it is pretty difficult to imagine his situation. It is such an outlier example that it is needs more information to fully understand; information which is lacking from the article.

At 29, he's had 15 solid working years behind him. Not a single job in that time? (less a couple of short contracts - which are still jobs, so the headline is a bit of a misnomer) The economy hasn't been bad for that long, and arguably still isn't that bad, at least in Canada.

I get the impression that he decided to spend the first 20-some-odd years of his life focusing on himself, which is fine, I respect that if done without any illusions, but now he's scrambling to catch up thinking he should be at the same level as his peers who have spent years focusing on their careers. The world doesn't work that way.

If that is not his situation, it wasn't clear from the article.

Re: A 29-year-old on the difficulties of landing a first job

#104

Post by billpatrianakos »

This is so true. Everyone wants to say we're not trying hard enough but we really are the guys with the awesome grades, extra-curriculars, part time jobs, and involved in sports plus finding time to be social.

The silver lining is that if you're in the right industry it can be easier. Last week I sent out 10 resumes and got 4 interviews for web development positions. My chances are good at every company I interviewed with but only time will tell if I'm not being too optimistic. Your location has a lot to do with it too im sure. I live in Chicago so it was relatively easy to land those interviews but if you're not in a major metro area (New York, Chicago, LA, etc.) then surely it's a lot tougher to break in. The solution is probably to move. Half the people at the companies I interviewed at told me they moved from places like Kentucky, Mississippi, Michigan to where the jobs were.

It's tough though no matter where you are and what you're trying to break into.

Re: A 29-year-old on the difficulties of landing a first job

#105

Post by TDL »

DanI-S wrote: post #37

There are a shocking number of people here with no outward empathy, understanding nor willingness to see outside of their own limited experience. The world is not the tech industry. Not everybody has the same perspective as you. In fact, more people find themselves in this chap's shoes than in yours. You're likely posting on here because you're under some illusion that you're an entrepreneur. How can you build a succ…

I have little empathy for this guy because I was him a decade ago. Going through life with a false sense of entitlement is no way to live. This individual believes that he was entitled to an opportunity, not that he had to go out and earn it. Furthermore, it seems as though this individual has allowed others to define wealth for him, in the end he has no idea what he wants and blames external issues for his misery.

If he really wants to work & make money, well companies are desperate for workers in the Bakken Oil Shale. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. many of the craft trades are also desperate for young people to get started. For example, in Illinois the average age of a plumber was 58 (it might be older now, I read that statistic a couple of years ago.) Young people aren't going into the trades apparently because it's not an acceptable profession. Everyone here knows about the needs in the tech industry so I won't go over them.

Lastly, his approach to finding a job is terrible (this is not necessarily his fault.) I've said this before & I will continue to say this (and I tell any young people this when I get a chance), when looking for a job you do not lead w/ your resume. It does not matter how well you researched the company, if you have not talked to people @ the firm or the hiring manager you do not know what they need.

Re: A 29-year-old on the difficulties of landing a first job

#106

Post by run4yourlives »

HolyHaddock wrote: post #40
DanBC wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"networking" is important. I'd have thought that "paying money to get into an event in order to network" was a sub-optimal version of networking. I agree that zero responses to 100 letters and resumés mean that something is wrong with the letters or resumés. But the author claims to be researching and tailoring, so I'm not sure what's going wrong there. Certainly that amount of research and work could be spent on bui…

> Well, you really need to tailor your application to be suitable for the jobs. Be clear: You mean "you need to lie". When applying to a coffee shop, for example: The person with a 4 year degree will not get the job. They will leave as soon as something better comes up. The person with a 4 year gap on their CV will also not be getting the job, as it will be assumed that they're hiding something.

What are you talking about? 11 Years ago I moved from Toronto to Vancouver. I was a web programmer in Toronto and would eventually be looking for a position of similar capacity in Vancouver.

The moment I hit the ground though, I didn't expect my dream job to land in my lap, but I still needed to pay rent. So, I walked into the local internet cafe with the help wanted sign.

Here's how it went:

Me: "Hey, I see you're looking for someone, and I could use a job right now, would you be interested in looking at my resume?"

Him: Dude, I can't pay you more than minimum wage plus a buck or two, you know that right?

Me: Yes, I understand. I just moved here though and it'll probably take me a couple of months to find a job I'm qualified for.

Him: So you're going to be looking for something better right away?

Me: Yeah, but you need a person to help you out, and some of these machines, to be honest could use a bit of a rebuild. Can any of your staff do that?

Him: No, and you're right I could use a person right now.

Me: Well, I could really use the money, and I think we'd both benefit here. I'll give you 3-4 weeks notice and help interview a replacement if you want.

Him: (after a good deal of humming and hahing and a conversation with his wife) Okay, let's do it.

Just like that.

It can and does happen. The retail industry isn't looking for a 3-5 year commitment. Hell, they hire people for the month of December only. Like anything, you need to speak to their needs and address them. In my case, most of the staff he had barely understood computers, and none of them could rebuild and clean out his inventory. I could. He gets that extra service for free in place of understanding that I'm not a long term employee.

Re: A 29-year-old on the difficulties of landing a first job

#107

Post by luser001 »

Diederich wrote: post #77
JPKab wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"At the age of 29, I've likely forever lost the following opportunities due to cost and probable inability to make up for lost wages and career potential: - Getting married. - Having children. - Studying any more, whether that means grad school, law school, or even just night classes at a random community college." So let's go through this step by step: 1) Getting married doesn't require money if you find the right w…

> 2) Having children: Interesting how white, middle class people think having kids is the most expensive thing ever. It's not. ... Exactly. Our child's clothing, toys and books come from: 1. Yard sales 2. Helping hands 3. Friends and neighbors 4. Craigslist and Freecycle Guess what? We give 100% of those things away in time. We've taught our son the concept of not holding onto physical things. All of his things came…

I admire what you're doing, but I just wanted to point out that there's a HUGE difference between denying yourself something because you can and denying yourself something because you can't afford it.

The $3 beer incident was poignant.

I found the book 'Nickel and Dimed' eye-opening.

Good job with your kid!

Re: A 29-year-old on the difficulties of landing a first job

#108

Post by luser001 »

krschultz wrote: post #54
DanBC wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"networking" is important. I'd have thought that "paying money to get into an event in order to network" was a sub-optimal version of networking. I agree that zero responses to 100 letters and resumés mean that something is wrong with the letters or resumés. But the author claims to be researching and tailoring, so I'm not sure what's going wrong there. Certainly that amount of research and work could be spent on bui…

For me, 'networking' only really helps me when I've worked with the people. Nobody you just met at a cocktail hour with name cards is going to call you up if they have a job opening. If you worked with someone for a few years, they will remember you when a job opens up and call you. Or at least help you when you call them. Ideally you will have a job/internship with these people, but it works pretty well in a partner…

Studies have shown that you're correct. Doing shared activities is the best way to network, not at a pre-talk mixer.

Re: A 29-year-old on the difficulties of landing a first job

#109

Post by run4yourlives »

HolyHaddock wrote: post #56
DanBC wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you must not lie. You emphasise all the customer service style jobs you've had; or you say that you want to get customer service experience with a world leader company that takes service seriously.

This does not work in the current market for the kind of role we're discussing. The hiring manager is looking for criteria to turn the big pile of CVs into a small pile of interviews. Being overqualified, or unexplained gaps fit the bill perfectly. It really does not matter how well tailored the experience, or how impressive the covering letter.

If you are applying to a company that has a "hiring manager" and are not a perfect match, you are making the first mistake.

The manager at Starbucks is not a "hiring manager". He doesn't care what's on your resume. He cares about three things: 1) Can I work with this guy? 2) Is he reliable/competent? 3) Is he going to steal from me/screw the other staff/piss off the customers/otherwise make my job more difficult?

Re: A 29-year-old on the difficulties of landing a first job

#110

Post by gaius »

randomdata wrote: post #99
base698 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised there's a glut considering I've still run across people who've asked me what a computer programmer even does.

Most people I come across believe it means that I fix computers.

I do fix computers (broken 8-bit machines from eBay) but that's for fun, not profit ;-)
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