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Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

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Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#101

Can we start a list of technological magic that is actually "1000 people in India watching and labeling videos" (or functional equivalent)?

Expensify was a pretty well known case of this several years ago — their marketing was all about their advanced scanning technology, and it turned out they were using Mechanical Turk in many cases with little concern for PII (or corporate security) concerns.

(I have no idea if this is still the case, for the record.)

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German it is always a culture shock to see how popular self checkout is in the UK, even though I see it used more often recently in Germany too. I think Germany is about a decade behind...

Wait until you see how popular it is in the US! I can't remember the last time I saw someone use a manned checkout line; my local grocery store has 1 manned lane and 12 self checkout lanes, and the manned one is almost always empty.

> 1 manned lane and 12 self checkout lanes, and the manned one is almost always empty

its empty because it’s considered rude to burden the poorly paid checkout person when you can self-service. Once all of the self-service lanes are occupied, the sentiment shifts and customers uneasily queue up in the manned lane, frantically watching if the self-service lane clears up so they can jump out of the manned lane.

One of those freak cases in behavioral econ where the causality is very straightforward and explicit.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#104
post #54

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

> I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. Scan-as-you-shop has been around for at least a decade at this point I think, at least in some parts of the world. ICA (supermarket in Sweden) been doing it for as long as I can remember, and I came across this image of the scanner being used at the store on Mediawiki: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:S…

Wal-Mart tried it here in Canada for a bit, but it didn't last long at all.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#105

Can we start a list of technological magic that is actually "1000 people in India watching and labeling videos" (or functional equivalent)?

while I agree with the sentiment, as an Indian, I hope this doesn't happen in India. countries which typically do this mechanical turk-like work typically don't raise themselves out of poverty (esp. Philippines, Indonesia, etc.). If anyone wants a specific example, I lead an aspect of web crawling for a FAANG and then other public companies. Over the last 10 years we heavily used those offshore teams, aforementioned, to do sanity checks/labeling, etc. Now, we have initiatives with GPT APIs which perform just as well for pennies on the dollar we spent offshore - and the offshore team that's been loyal for years? They're getting cut.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#106

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

The problem with your second suggestion is that it gives the customer no recourse for improperly tagged/scanned items. Interaction with a human or checkout system before leaving the store is necessary, given how ripe for abuse a totally automated checkout system would be.

Agreed - I think there's also the issue of people needing to be pre-registered with such a system, and not being able to accept cash. I would expect that in the future, systems like that will be an "express lane" for the particularly prepared, but not necessarily the default.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#107

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

It's like a gift-registry, but you take all the stuff with you when you're done instead of letting other people buy it for you later. We've got Barcode guns at self-checkout here, and I've begun to arrange my items barcode-up in the cart, so I can just get everything rapidly. I often don't bring my bags with me, because I'm going to have to load everything into the car anyway.

Interesting, it works the other way around here. You get a portable barcode gun that you carry around the store or put in a sort of cup holder on the cart.

So I always bring a bag or a foldable crate, throw everything in while shopping and then put that in the car.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#108
post #3

> Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts. That line was unintentionally hilarious to me. Like looking inside a TV and finding a bunch of fast-working little people drawing images.

It isn't that bad an idea. Imagine that next time you are drunk, you can hire a driver who will drive you back home remotely (along with some AI to stop the car in case connection goes away).

Imagine you hire a taxi, but the taxi driver follows commands of someone in another country who receives video stream from the car.

That’s what it’s actually like. It’s just strictly more work than simply having a cashier.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#109
post #54

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

> I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. Scan-as-you-shop has been around for at least a decade at this point I think, at least in some parts of the world. ICA (supermarket in Sweden) been doing it for as long as I can remember, and I came across this image of the scanner being used at the store on Mediawiki: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:S…

All the supermarkets where I live (English Midlands) have scan as you shop.

I stopped using it after they required using their loyalty cards/apps to use it.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#110
post #3

> Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts. That line was unintentionally hilarious to me. Like looking inside a TV and finding a bunch of fast-working little people drawing images.

The article they link for that isn't readable without subscription. Were they actually labeling data live? That sounds like effectively a secret concierge following you around and writing down what you're getting & like it would be pretty difficult to keep up with. Otherwise, labeled data and machine learning kind of go hand and hand. It's not wild that Amazon would dogfood its own product while creating training dat…

It sounds like the receipts weren't necessarily "live", sometimes taking hours to appear, so I'm guessing they did it as live as possible and when they got backed up they would just revisit recorded video. Something tells me the expectations for throughput were also pretty overwhelming to the individuals who worked there.
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