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Proxmox VE: Import Wizard for Migrating VMware ESXi VMs

forum.proxmox.com

101–110 of 118 posts

Re: Proxmox VE: Import Wizard for Migrating VMware ESXi VMs

#101

It's the ecosystem. Sure, your organization is spending another million dollars on VMware this year, but what are the options? * Your outsourced VMware-certified experts don't actually know that much about virtualization (somehow) * Your backup software provider is just now researching adding Proxmox support ( https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/22/veeam_proxmox_oracle_... ) * A few years ago you 'reduced storage cos…

> It's the ecosystem.

Definitively, and situations like the Broadcom one IMO just underline that as a company you should never ever get your core infra locked into proprietary vendors' ecosystem, as that is just waiting for getting squeezed out, which they can for the reasons you laid out.

> Your outsourced VMware-certified experts don't actually know that much about virtualization (somehow).

That should be a wake-up call to have some in-house expertise for any core infra you run, at least as a mid-sized, or bigger, company. Most projects targeting the enterprise, like Proxmox VE, provide official trainings for exactly that reason.

https://proxmox.com/en/services/training

> * Your backup software provider is just now researching adding Proxmox support (https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/22/veeam_proxmox_oracle_...)

Yeah, that's understandable, one wants to avoid switching both, the hyper-visors that hosts core-infrastructure and the backup solution that holds all data, often even from the whole period a company needs to legally save that.

But as you saw, even the biggest backup player sees enough reason to hedge their offerings and takes Proxmox VE very seriously as alternative, the rest is a matter of time.

> A few years ago you 'reduced storage cost and complexity' by moving to VMware vSAN, now you have a SAN purchase and data migration on your task list

No, you should rather evaluate Proxmox's Ceph integration instead of getting yet another overly expensive SAN box. As ceph allows you to also run a powerful and near indestructible HCI storage, but avoids any lock-in as Ceph is FLOSS and there are many companies providing support for it and other hyper-visors that can use it.

> * The hybrid cloud solution that was implemented isn't compatible with Proxmox. > * The ServiceNow integration for VMware works great and is saving you tons of time and money. You want to give that up?

That certainly needs more work and is part of the chicken and egg problem that backup support is (or well, was) facing, but also somewhat underlines how lock-in works.

> * Can you live without logging, reporting, and dashboards until your team gets some free time?

Proxmox VE has some integrated logging and metrics, and provides native support to send to external metrics server, we use that for all of our infra (that runs on a dozen PVE servers in various datacenters around the world) with great success and not much initial implementation effort.

So yeah, it's the ecosystem, but there are alternatives for most things and just throwing up your hands only signals to those companies that they can squeeze you much tighter.

Re: Proxmox VE: Import Wizard for Migrating VMware ESXi VMs

#102
post #65
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proxmox documentation does mention OVF support https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Migrate_to_Proxmox_VE#Import_OV... Seems a bit barebones, as in no support for a nice OVF properties launch UI, but one should be able to extract an OVA to an OVF and VMDK an manually edit the OVF with appropriate properties. I actually had plans this week to try exactly that...

Interesting thanks for sharing. Surfacing this in the UI would be great if it works well for sure. Another handy feature is the ContentLibrary for organizing and launching OVA/OVF, as well as launching OVA directly from a URL without needing to download it next to the cli. This makes me think there could be an opportunity in "PhotoPea (kvm gui) for vCenter" - in the same manner photopea is a clean room implementation…

  > Interesting thanks for sharing. Surfacing this in the UI would be great if it works well for sure.
That's on the roadmap, from the original forum post linked here:

  > Q: Will other import sources be supported in the future?
  > A: We plan to integrate our OVF/OVA import tools into this new stack in the future.
  >    Currently, integrating additional import sources is not on our roadmap, but will be re-evaluated periodically.

Re: Proxmox VE: Import Wizard for Migrating VMware ESXi VMs

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate projects like Proxmox but it must be also said that you can achieve same functionality sans the UI with tools available on most Linux distributions: libvirt, lx{c,d}, podman etc.

True... And Proxmox is just skin on lxc and quemu/kvm. I will say that as I have just started playing with the lxc api, having the Proxmox UI as a quick and easy visual cross check has been lovely. Podman is an amazing alternative to docker, cant say enough good things about it.

> And Proxmox is just skin on lxc and quemu/kvm.

Not really, we have a full-blown REST API that provides storage plugins for a dozen of technologies, disk management, system metrics reporting, management of LXC and QEMU (as in full-blown LXD/Incus and libvirt replacement), which alone probably is taking up a third of our code base, to provide replication, live-migration, local-storage (live-)migration, backup management, HA, good integration into our access control management including multifactor authentication, integration in to LDAP/AD or SSO like OpenID Connect, software defined storage and network integrations, our own kernel, qemu and lxc builds, and hundreds of other features. Don't even get me started on the devs required on each project to continue integration and upstream development and provide enterprise support that actually can fix problems.

In other words, wrapping QEMU or LXC to provide ones custom VM/CTs might be doable easily, but that isn't even a percent of what Proxmox VE offers you.

If a thin UI around LXC/QEMU is all one would need to be competitive with VMWare, then every web dev would be stupid to not create one as a weekend project, but reality is that there's much more required to actually provide the whole ecosystem a modern hyper-visor stack requires to even be considered for any production use case.

Re: Proxmox VE: Import Wizard for Migrating VMware ESXi VMs

#104
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run macOS/OSX Sonoma in Proxmox. It does pcie/gpu passthrough (AMD rx580 8gb). The proxmox host is running a AMD Ryzen 7 5700G cpu and has 64gb memory. The mac vm disks are on a zfs fs on a wd black nvme ssd. It's the fastest mac I've ever owned and it's virtual, executed on a machine running a chip that apple never supported, and you'd never be able to tell it was a vm unless you were told so. kvm and vfio are ama…

> zfs fs on a wd black nvme ssd Why? IIRC running ZFS on NVMe SSDs limit their performance seriously. With sufficient queue depth modern SSDs can easily get up to 1mln+ IOPS and on ZFS I can barely get 100k :(

Most probably because ZFS still has the most extensive data correctness guarantess of all filesystems on Linux. Yes, bcachefs will have checksums too but it it is still in beta.

Re: Proxmox VE: Import Wizard for Migrating VMware ESXi VMs

#105
post #8

I have been running proxmox at home for a few months now. It has been, to say the least, an adventure. And I have nothing but good things to say about Proxmox at this point. Its running not only my home related items (MQTT, Homeassitant), it also plays host to some of the projects I'm working on (postgres, go apps, etc...) rather than runing some sort of local dev. If you need to exit vmware, proxmox seems like a goo…

I appreciate projects like Proxmox but it must be also said that you can achieve same functionality sans the UI with tools available on most Linux distributions: libvirt, lx{c,d}, podman etc.

I would love to see a serious comparison (features & performance) between VMWare ESXi, Proxmox VE and let's say a more stock RHEL or Ubuntu. And maybe even include FreeBSD/bhyve.

Because yes, in terms of core functionality it should be in the same ballpark. And in terms of UI, Virtual Machine Manager [0] was not that bad.

[0] https://virt-manager.org/

Re: Proxmox VE: Import Wizard for Migrating VMware ESXi VMs

#106
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the initramfs which is rather important if you want them to boot without having to use slow emulated IDE. Then there's Windows guests.

It have been years since I used windows VMs, can't you install .inf driver's file beforehand?

Windows needs at least the boot block device driver to be installed before conversion (else it cannot find the boot disk), and there are many other changes you need to make. Virt-v2v does all this stuff during conversion, and it's hard to get right.

Re: Proxmox VE: Import Wizard for Migrating VMware ESXi VMs

#107
post #104
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> zfs fs on a wd black nvme ssd Why? IIRC running ZFS on NVMe SSDs limit their performance seriously. With sufficient queue depth modern SSDs can easily get up to 1mln+ IOPS and on ZFS I can barely get 100k :(

Most probably because ZFS still has the most extensive data correctness guarantess of all filesystems on Linux. Yes, bcachefs will have checksums too but it it is still in beta.

btrfs has checksums as well.

Re: Proxmox VE: Import Wizard for Migrating VMware ESXi VMs

#108
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For paravirtualized hardware rendering you can use virtio-gpu. In addition to Linux, a Windows guest driver is available but it's highly experimental still and not very easy to get working.

What's the best solution for remote viewing with virtio-gpu? I vaguely recall that it had some incompatibility with spice. I have a bunch of qemu/kvm virtual machines for various tasks. For two of them I decided that graphics performance needed to be at least OK and ended up buying and passing through old Quadro cards. It'd be lovely to not have to do that.

I don't think virtio-gpu works on SPICE. I only use it for VMs on my desktop as I can display the output on the local machine using virt-viewer.

Re: Proxmox VE: Import Wizard for Migrating VMware ESXi VMs

#109
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the best solution for remote viewing with virtio-gpu? I vaguely recall that it had some incompatibility with spice. I have a bunch of qemu/kvm virtual machines for various tasks. For two of them I decided that graphics performance needed to be at least OK and ended up buying and passing through old Quadro cards. It'd be lovely to not have to do that.

I don't think virtio-gpu works on SPICE. I only use it for VMs on my desktop as I can display the output on the local machine using virt-viewer.

Still the case, huh. That's unfortunate. All of my VMs run on a headless server, so my only means of use is via some form of remote desktop.

Re: Proxmox VE: Import Wizard for Migrating VMware ESXi VMs

#110
post #104
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> zfs fs on a wd black nvme ssd Why? IIRC running ZFS on NVMe SSDs limit their performance seriously. With sufficient queue depth modern SSDs can easily get up to 1mln+ IOPS and on ZFS I can barely get 100k :(

Most probably because ZFS still has the most extensive data correctness guarantess of all filesystems on Linux. Yes, bcachefs will have checksums too but it it is still in beta.

copy on write, instant snapshots, data checksumming, easy rollbacks, auto trim, compression

proxmox takes advantage of zfs' features if available, like when you select block storage on zfs it makes each vm disk its own dataset which you can tune as you see fit for each one. cloning a vm is instant if you make a cow clone. suspending the vm to do snapshot based backups is also nearly instant, etc

Disable atimes and turn off the arc cache and metadata cache (don't really need either with fast storage compared to spinning rust) and use lz4 compression and you minimize write amplification or needless wear on the drive. zfs is perfectly fine on ssd for my use case

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